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Thread: Eye On The Prize

  1. #1
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    Default Eye On The Prize

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    Eye On The Prize ~ SHR LAKE CHAFFEE'S AUTUMN LEGACY O' TRAD FINIAN MAC JH. Now 21 months old and in his 2nd season hunting upland game birds, MAC is seen keeping an eye on a large rooster pheasant he flushed to the gun and subsequently retrieved whilst we hunted earlier this morning.

    Cheers,
    THE DOG WHISTLER ☘️🇮🇪🇺🇸

  2. #2

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    Yellow labs are excellent hunters!!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goosemaster View Post
    Yellow labs are excellent hunters!!
    Some are, some are not. Either way, it has nothing to do with their color.

    Mikey ☘️🇺🇸🇮🇪

  4. #4

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    True.All mine have been excellent, but when you Bird hunt all the time, your dog will be good, just from hundreds of hours in the field every season. I've never done much training at all.U like labs, Remington shotguns, old Ford 4x4's,PBR, Jim Beam, Canadian made Sorels, Pontiac gto,snow goose hunting in Saskatchewan, Turkey hunting, spring and fall, water skiing.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goosemaster View Post
    True.All mine have been excellent, but when you Bird hunt all the time, your dog will be good, just from hundreds of hours in the field every season. I've never done much training at all.U like labs, Remington shotguns, old Ford 4x4's,PBR, Jim Beam, Canadian made Sorels, Pontiac gto,snow goose hunting in Saskatchewan, Turkey hunting, spring and fall, water skiing.
    I know some guys that "bird hunt all the time and that fail to train", generally speaking their dogs reflect their lack of training and in my opinion most of their dogs suck. It's all relative and to be determined by the objective analysis of skill sets attained and their consistent performance. I would further contend that most guys that think they own "excellent" dogs, would not know an "excellent" dog if it bit them in the arse. Again, all relative and based on a multitude of factors that determine true excellence in sporting dogs. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, your generalization that "yellow Labs are excellent hunters" is simply that, a misstated generalization that simply is not supported by fact. NOT all yellow Labs are "excellent hunters", nor are all black and all chocolate Labs excellent hunters - color being very low on the scale of those factors which determine excellent performance. Add to your argument that a retriever simply needs to be yellow, have numerous bird contacts and very little training to become "excellent hunters" and I will contend that such probability is decreased significantly. If your argument were true, we would see numerous hunters gunning over "excellent, untrained, yellow Labs" and the demand for such dogs would be so high that the demand for truly excellent and highly trained Labradors of other colors (black and chocolate) would significantly decrease. After all, why spend thousands of hours training a retriever when as according to you, one simply needs a yellow Lab, with very little training, and numerous hours spent hunting birds, to achieve gun dog excellence. As one that has hunted, trained, lived, and competed with Labs for nearly four decades, I would would argue that your assessment of gun dog "excellence" and mine, are widely divergent. NOTE; I am far from being some sporting dog snob, but will stand my ground in arguing that solid training will be a far more decisive factor in determining gun dog excellence than will the color or amount of time spent hunting while not properly trained to do so. I would love to hear the opinions of others that frequent this forum on this matter?

    Cheers,
    THE DOG WHISTLER ☘️🇺🇸🇮🇪

  6. #6
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    Irish, it sounds like your idea of a "good dog" is not what 99.5% consider a "good dog". The vast majority of the hunting dogs are family pets 9 months of the year. Their owners have jobs (not as dog trainers) and families that get more attention their "pets" during the "off-season". We (I am part of this majority) want a dog with some manors that can be reasonably controlled in the field with a few commands and guestures. Most of these dogs will learn to be very effective hunters with more time in the field. A "good dog" is in the eye of the owner, no sence in rippin on someone that is very satified with their dog that does everything and more in the field to put birds in their game vest, when operator does thier part. There are just different levels and your level is not what most expect or need for their dog from what it sounds like from here. I am assuming this site is filled with seasonal hunters not dog trainers and kennel owner/operators. We all know most things posted here are opinions we have formed from our own limited experiences...no ones says anything here is the definitive gospel on the subject being discussed. Let folks have their say and go with it...no harm in that.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by remy3424 View Post
    Irish, it sounds like your idea of a "good dog" is not what 99.5% consider a "good dog". The vast majority of the hunting dogs are family pets 9 months of the year. Their owners have jobs (not as dog trainers) and families that get more attention their "pets" during the "off-season". We (I am part of this majority) want a dog with some manors that can be reasonably controlled in the field with a few commands and guestures. Most of these dogs will learn to be very effective hunters with more time in the field. A "good dog" is in the eye of the owner, no sence in rippin on someone that is very satified with their dog that does everything and more in the field to put birds in their game vest, when operator does thier part. There are just different levels and your level is not what most expect or need for their dog from what it sounds like from here. I am assuming this site is filled with seasonal hunters not dog trainers and kennel owner/operators. We all know most things posted here are opinions we have formed from our own limited experiences...no ones says anything here is the definitive gospel on the subject being discussed. Let folks have their say and go with it...no harm in that.
    Remy,
    First off, I am not "ripping" on anybody, nor do I concur with your figure of 99.5 % of sports being satisfied with an untrained dog. My trained retrievers live a very happy life as family companions in our home when not off chasing birds with me. You seem to assert that dogs of high level training and those that serve as family pets are mutually exclusive from one another, that certainly not being factual nor my stance on the matter. In fact, I would contend that dogs that live in the home are generally offered more opportunity to be trained to higher levels of obedience and proficiency. I would offer that I have hunted over a much wider sampling of dogs than the average hunter and that said perspective might lend me a more objective overview than the so called average hunter. I have hunted over both professionally and amateur trained dogs, some from each school were excellent, some from each school were less than good.

    The original poster stated "yellow Labradors are excellent hunters", not the "good dog" you cited as considered so by 99.5% of owners, both of those being generalized statements based on assumption. My points made were that one cannot accurately base gun dog performance or expectations thereof based on the color of the dog. The original poster also states that time spent hunting with a dog translates into proficiency as a gun dog and that is just NOT true. There are countless dogs from sporting breeds that regardless of any amount of time spent training, will never be made into "excellent" hunting dogs. Why? Because they do not have the innate DNA prescribed bird / prey drive, intelligence, and trainability, that are a common thread to most dogs that will ever achieve what most folks might construe as excellent gun dogs.

    Not to assign an arbitrary statistic like 99.5% that is not based in scientific analysis, I will offer that most folks might consider their K9 hunting companion as a "good dog", that based on their own experiential limitations. And to set the record straight, I agree with the school of thought that "to each their own" regarding what they find to be acceptable as a "good dog". Training dogs for field work ultimately translates to that which provides both productivity and a pleasant experience while in pursuit of birds afield. Further, training also translates to a dog that is a pleasure to live with and that the owner can confidently take anywhere with the expectation of responsive obedience under distractive conditions - a K9 good citizen. Obedience is the foundation of all K9 training and an "excellent" gun dog is not to be realized without having been trained in foundational obedience.

    I fully agree with you that there are varying levels of training and that my needs are not necessarily those expected by others. My reasoning for responding to the original poster was simply to clarify that: (1) Color of a dog has little bearing on performance. (2). That dogs having little training more often than not, are not likely to become what would be considered by most as "excellent" gun dogs.

    I will agree that time spent afield and numerous bird contacts are critical elements in forging an excellent gun dog, the other factor in that equation is in fact training.

    Most readers that frequent this site have unfortunately experienced hunting over a dog or dogs that are continuously being screamed at by their owners for a number of infractions such as unwillingness to recall on command, whining inscesntly in the blind, not hunting in range and busting birds, etc., etc. The root of such behaviors are generally poor and / or incomplete early phase foundational training. Better to head off these behavioral problems before they ever start rather than to try and remediate them once they have become established or worse yet, entrenched. And again, I contend that dogs that live in the home are generally given more opportunity for teachable moments and are far more likely to be obedience trained to a responsive level as a result of that benefit.

    As for "letting folks have their own say", by all means. Just offering my opinion and nobody needs to take it as the definitive way to go. Conversely, I don't like to see the unknowing misled by generalized assertions that are just not factually based.

    Cheers,
    THE DOG WHISTLER ☘️🇮🇪🇺🇸

  8. #8
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    See, this is why I'm a springer guy. They train ME so quickly & completely that I'm oblivious to any of my dog's shortcomings. It's just easier that way.

    The brown & white kind are better trainers than the black & white or tri-color kinds, for me anyway. Maybe other breeds are ALMOST as brilliant.
    "Most pheasants in South Dakota don't react too well to #5s." -The Hunt for Red Rooster

  9. #9

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    [QUOTE=remy3424;254259]Irish, it sounds like your idea of a "good dog" is not what 99.5% consider a "good dog". The vast majority of the hunting dogs are family pets 9 months of the year. Their owners have jobs (not as dog trainers) and families that get more attention their "pets" during the "off-season". We (I am part of this majority) want a dog with some manors that can be reasonably controlled in the field with a few commands and guestures. Most of these dogs will learn to be very effective hunters with more time in the field. A "good dog" is in the eye of the owner, no sence in rippin on someone that is very satified with their dog that does everything and more in the field to put birds in their game vest, when operator does thier part. There are just different levels and your level is not what most expect or need for their dog from what it sounds like from here. I am assuming this site is filled with seasonal hunters not dog trainers and kennel owner/operators. We all know most things posted here are opinions we have formed from our own limited experiences...no ones says anything here is the definitive gospel on the subject being discussed. Let folks have their say and go with it...no harm in that.[/QUOTE

    what a bunch of B.S.—you and goose need help

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by A5 Sweet 16 View Post
    See, this is why I'm a springer guy. They train ME so quickly & completely that I'm oblivious to any of my dog's shortcomings. It's just easier that way.

    The brown & white kind are better trainers than the black & white or tri-color kinds, for me anyway. Maybe other breeds are ALMOST as brilliant.
    My dad had Springers when he was young, and a decent hunter.They were good Bird dogs, and family pets.Later in his life, he had golden retrievers. Those dogs only hunted once a year, and they were just sort of our there. I'm not going to say training is not necessary, but just hunting a dog a lot, is training in itself.My opinion of course.

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