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Thread: Anyone going to be out this weekend?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    South Central, KS
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    580

    Default Anyone going to be out this weekend?

    I'll be out Fri to Sun - wife knows how much I love hunting - she is graduating nursing school so I no longer have to stay around home as much since she'll be back to normal helping with our kindergartner etc....anyways glad that's behind us - can get back to a more "normal" if there is such a thing.


    My buddy I go with can't make it - other has a little one due at any minute with a 2 yo at home so he needs to stay close to home and another good buddy is working.


    Myself and 3 dogs -- 10 yo setter and a 2 and 4yo setters which are new to me but were owned by a local field trial guy that passed away - I purchased them from his estate - have had them a month or so and had them on birds once - both get it - and are beyond started -- I dont think they were hunted on wild birds but played with plenty of the fake ones used at field trials (that's my term - no comparison in my mind to field trial games and wild bird hunting - principles of training the dogs are the same but handling the birds are different usually) Im excited to get them out in the open - both have some wheels.




    If anyone wants to meet up be glad to make a new acquaintance, hunt a field or share a story at the end of the day - cool - I'll be way west I think and s of I70 - for no other reason than that's where I used to live and am more familiar with the areas.

    I haven't went out yet so am hoping with 2 weekends already gone by most of the jackwagons are done hunting birds for the year.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    376

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    Good luck. I remember having young kids at home and how precious a little time away could be. What's precious to me now is the opportunity to hunt with kids, who are 19 and 21 and students at K-State.

    I'll be duck hunting Saturday and bird hunting sunday. Much closer to Wichita though.

  3. #3

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    Did I read somewhere you were having some issues with one of the new setters? Did you get that worked out?

    I intend to hunt that same area the next weekend, or I would loved to meet up, I would love to hear your report. I typically hunt SW Nebraska the week after thanksgiving but I am not getting good reports from my contacts there.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    NE Kansas
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    25

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    My brother and I will be heading out west early Sunday morning. Still haven't decided exactly where we're gonna go though (north vs south of 70)

  5. #5

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    Yes, I am going goose hunting!!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    South Central, KS
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasPHEZHunter View Post
    Did I read somewhere you were having some issues with one of the new setters? Did you get that worked out?

    I intend to hunt that same area the next weekend, or I would loved to meet up, I would love to hear your report. I typically hunt SW Nebraska the week after thanksgiving but I am not getting good reports from my contacts there.

    That was likely me if you are a member of some of the bird dog groups on FB -- the one I was ready to put down I reassessed if I may have done something to trigger his bad behavior -- I didnt think so but did a bunch of reading and changed up how I handle him instead of meeting aggression with aggression. I think I'm about 60% there. I dont think I'll ever own another male dog again unless I keep one out of a litter I'd have bred out of a future female I'd have. I'm hemhawing around about getting both dogs neutered.

    At this point I can have my 10 yo female in the same kennel as the one that I think wants to be Alpha and leave her in there unsupervised -- she'll snip at him if he comes to close with his bad behavior and put him in his place as she is the #1 dog here and it's going to stay that way. The one thing she is nervous about is eating before him but I'll feed him and then bring her in on purpose and let her eat a bit before he gets anything.

    If he ever does the growling thing with any of the dogs I pick him up by the scruff of the neck and lift him mostly off the ground. So far I think both males have gotten along pretty well - I leave them out during the day in the fenced in portion of the yard we have and they seem alright...no further scuffles that I'm aware of other than the occasional grring that "brothers" may do. I'm guessing neutering them would calm them down a bit - I doubt I'd want a puppy out of either one - I just dont know them well enough yet so am not sure about pulling the trigger on that.


    Anyways after this experiment as much as I respected the late dogs owner in the few interactions I had with him and know he'd forget more knowledge on dogs than I know. I will NEVER
    own or look to buy adult "started" dogs from someone that has ONLY field trialed them or trained them for such game. Nothing correlates to real world hunting.



    I am starting completely over from scratch it seems like - they have never likely been in the terrain I am taking them in - dont know how to stay with me and keep getting lost, cant figure out how to cross fences etc -- all of it is new. Got overwhelmed by a covey and bumped them and some singles - running over birds etc.


    My out of shape 10 yo put them to shame - I'm pretty sure they have it in them but this entire season will have to be devoted to me just getting them bird contacts and simply going for "walks" and not hunting. So I'll make the best of it and enjoy the time I get my 10 yo out. She found 5 coveys on Sat and we weren't hunting hard.

    The wanna be alpha dog busted one of the covey's she found....though he partially redeemed himself later as at the end of the day I ran him just by himself and he found a covey and held it so I could style him up.


    I'm figuring the Alpha wannabe I'm going to be forced to run alone all the time which I guess is Ok as it will force me to rotate dogs so I can hunt longer -- when I had him out alone he stayed closer to me. The last field I hunted for a couple hours on my way home I let all 3 out for the heck of it to see what happened - the 4 yo did better about staying with me - the Alpha wanna be stayed close for about 10 mins then went off and got lost and couldnt find me - so I just left him - he went back to the truck and then maybe he started looking for me...I dont know - but ended up a half mile away running the road -- - once he saw my truck he came to it wagging his tail - I guess I care enough I didnt want him to get run over once I knew where he was distance wise. Had we been in more wide open country with more time I'd have left him alone so he found his way back. It's like these dogs have lost their compass - I've never had dogs not know where I am or how to find me.

    The 4 yo I've yet to see even get birdy or point a wild bird (had him on a pen raised chukar and he did GREAT) - all he wants to do is chaise meadowlarks and flash point them - he holds his tail straight out when he's flash pointing which is weird as I know he has style - he exhibits it in the yard and has the capability to point with a 12 o'clock tail -- runs like a damn greyhound -- he got lost the 1st day - 2nd day on some runs he did much better staying with me - he always wants to hunt behind and I'm constantly having to call him to keep him out front - hoping he gets it sooner than later. I think he just doesnt know what his purpose in life is.


    I'm probably expecting much for only our 4th outing and 1st hunting experience but for a dog that's 2 and one that's nearly 4 I figured they'd be more "seasoned" than this. It's like I'm dealing with grown puppies.


    What perplexes me is I know these dogs were worked - but in what scenarios and what exposure they've had or what a pure field trialer does is beyond me - but so far I'm pretty sure I can state this - if someone has a champion 100% field trial dog that only has been trained and runs in trials and never hunts my 10 yo slowed down dog would kick it's axx in real world hunting. I'm prepared to do the work - just wasnt expecting to have to put this much into them. Like anything when I gamble sometimes it doesnt pay off.


    By January I'm hoping to either be more excited about Nov 2020 or I'll be wanting to adopt out these expensive bad investments of time and money. I'm trying to stay positive. I'm hoping if the stars align we end up with that perfect scenting condition day, the birds hold and are plentiful and give me the right couple of teaching scenarios so it will "click" in their heads this is what their supposed to do.


    Next step to get them more bonded with me is to take them to work and bring them inside for short spells in a kennel beside me. I think I also have forgotten how much time and effort I put into working with my present 10 yo dog and her mother before her.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    South Central, KS
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasPHEZHunter View Post
    Did I read somewhere you were having some issues with one of the new setters? Did you get that worked out?

    I intend to hunt that same area the next weekend, or I would loved to meet up, I would love to hear your report. I typically hunt SW Nebraska the week after thanksgiving but I am not getting good reports from my contacts there.

    I am also likely going out again this coming Fri to Sun again. Looking for more progress to be made.

  8. #8

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    KsHusker

    There are many different field trial games, from all age/shooting dog horseback trials where dogs are expected to hunt to the extremes, and are rewarded for ambitious and independent ground application and handling their birds in an honest and stylish fashion, to NSTRA type trials where dogs run in a 40 ac field where birds are shot and retrieved. Discounting the "field trial dog" as a hunting dog would be a major mistake, as the majority of setters and pointers in the field will trace their lineage back to field trial champions in the first few generations. There are reasons why these dogs were field trial champions and there are reasons why knowledgeable hunters seek out their offspring.

    From my experience in "rescuing" several all age dogs off the circuit, what you have are two dogs that didn't get out of the kennel much. I've experienced the dog not crossing a fence or ditch thing, and invariably they turned out to be dogs that were not worked with and properly introduced to the field at an early age. And if they didn't get walked as puppies and introduced to all the things puppies learn on those walks, chances are they weren't well socialized either. To me it sounds like your local "field trial guy", that recently passed away, was someone that due to health, or other issues, didn't get these dogs worked, and your are correct, they are pups developmentally.

    No field trial dog wins a trial yo-yoing, looping, or coming in from behind, and probably a better trainer than me can cure this pattern, but I've had limited success getting a dog to stay to the front, when they naturally want to loop or come in from behind, especially when they're 4 yo. This type pattern if often expressed at an early age, and these dogs are weeded out as field trial prospects. I hope you get them to come around, but I do think you have two grown puppies and need train them up accordingly. Shooting birds for them, making them like you, and want to go with you goes a long way.
    Last edited by Mill Creek; 11-25-2019 at 01:25 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    South Central, KS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mill Creek View Post
    KsHusker

    There are many different field trial games, from all age/shooting dog horseback trials where dogs are expected to hunt to the extremes, and are rewarded for ambitious and independent ground application and handling their birds in an honest and stylish fashion, to NSTRA type trials where dogs run in a 40 ac field where birds are shot and retrieved. Discounting the "field trial dog" as a hunting dog would be a major mistake, as the majority of setters and pointers in the field will trace their lineage back to field trial champions in the first few generations. There are reasons why these dogs were field trial champions and there are reasons why knowledgeable hunters seek out their offspring.

    I dont disagree with you at all on this comment as my present female and her mother I owned both have a ton of CH Tomoka blood - I guess I meant that I'd not pay good money (I didnt pay much for these guys at all - but had some boarding fees and my time which I'll never get back) for a dog purely worked on trials. As teaching them or rather letting them learn the art of hunting is completely different and a time suck in and unto itself. Maybe I'm wrong and there's a dog out there that would be different but the scent of an entire covey of quail that know how to run away from you or pheasants that may be in a group of 10-20 running etc is different than finding a lone planted chukar or planted quail -- but again I'm not into trials so maybe my perception is different than reality.

    My parents like to hear about my hunting adventures and I was discussing with them today so far I'd have been much better off buying pups. These guys are 2 and 4 - by the time I get them turned around they wont have much time left. But it is what it is at this point. Maybe the former owner as you alluded possibly had some health issues I wasnt aware of - I had not touched base with him in a # of years and my interactions were few. So could explain what I'm seeing.


    The one that was looping back around was figuring out how to hunt in the front more towards my 2nd day - it will simply take lots of time out in the field so I'll just enjoy the walks. I had plenty of ups and downs with my previous two dogs and they taught me a lot - these guys will teach me more I suppose. Quite frankly I dont care where they go to an extent as long as it's not on the road as long as they're finding birds. I do not mother hen my present female dog and she was so so soft when she was young - still kind of is to this day - she went from being a dog that wouldnt get more than 10' a way from me and was an exciteable pee'r her first year and a half or so to finding plenty of birds and holding them for 20 mins plus sometimes at 300-400 and on occasion 600 yards. Hoping these knotheads can do the same with enough patience. Will just make me want to get out more this year which is a good thing. More exercise for all of us.

  10. #10

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    Good for you for taking them in and giving them a chance. I hope they make bird dogs for you.

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