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  1. #1
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    Default Sit vs Sit/Stay

    Question for you guys and gals. Would love to hear your opinion on this vs mine...

    Remi is doing great with all of the commands she has been shown so far:

    Come
    Sit
    Kennel
    Down
    Place
    Huntemup

    Now this leads me to the question: Do you add stay to your command list?

    I am following Tom Dokkens methods and he stresses this is very impt. I am NOT disagreeing with him of course but do I need to teach it? My line of thinking is sit means sit...until I say ok. Typically, I can walk a good distance away from her while just instilling sit command and reinforcing sit when/if needed as a reminder until l I give the come command. It is working for us pretty well.

    Am I hurting our training if I skip the stay command? I see lots of programs, lots of different ideas and opinions. Some are similar some are not. That leads me to believe why I feel skipping stay(shes only a little over 3 months so we could add if need be), would not hurt us. What do you think?

  2. #2
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    Also Id like to add another thought to this...

    I am not sure if I am going to teach steady to wing/shot. IF, I do...when you teach your dog to do this, you are getting her to sit and stay...not just sit not just stay. So again, sit means sit(and stay) until told otherwise. Wrong? Right?

  3. #3
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    Just teach sit. I'm sure there is little in harm teaching stay but it doesn't accomplish anything more than sit does. I think saying "stay" is more psychological for the handler than anything.
    Have your dog sit before opening the front door, or at feeding time. When your ready for them to go out release them with "OK" or whatever command you want. Put their food dish down and release them to eat when your ready, vary how long you make them wait. Also "OK" is regularly used in normal conversation "all done" is probably a better choice. If you have multiple dogs I would release them on their name. This is really handy if you only want to let one dog out the front door.
    I do sort of teach "wait", I will say this when opening kennel doors or if I want the dog to wait on the tailgate to put his collar on. I only do this for the first few months and then it happens automatic.
    "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." M.Facklam

  4. #4
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    For me, "sit" includes "stay" but not vice versa. Often, I don't particularly care whether he sits or not, but I need him to stay put. Thus, "stay". My dogs have never seemed confused by this, & I'm thankful I can command what I mean. If I don't mean sit (and don't care one way or the other), why command it? Others will say I should have higher standards & sit my dog any time I want him to stay. It's just not necessary for me.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by A5 Sweet 16 View Post
    For me, "sit" includes "stay" but not vice versa. Often, I don't particularly care whether he sits or not, but I need him to stay put. Thus, "stay". My dogs have never seemed confused by this, & I'm thankful I can command what I mean. If I don't mean sit (and don't care one way or the other), why command it? Others will say I should have higher standards & sit my dog any time I want him to stay. It's just not necessary for me.
    Not arguing with you and I'm glad this works for you. Serious question if you put the dog in a stay and he decides to sit to be more comfortable would consider this be disobedient?
    "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." M.Facklam

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatzby View Post
    Not arguing with you and I'm glad this works for you. Serious question if you put the dog in a stay and he decides to sit to be more comfortable would consider this be disobedient?
    If I've commanded him to both "stay" & "stand", then yes, if he sits he gets in trouble. That's a joke. No, of course not. As long as he stays, he can sit, stand, lie down, or whatever.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by A5 Sweet 16 View Post
    For me, "sit" includes "stay" but not vice versa. Often, I don't particularly care whether he sits or not, but I need him to stay put. Thus, "stay". My dogs have never seemed confused by this, & I'm thankful I can command what I mean. If I don't mean sit (and don't care one way or the other), why command it? Others will say I should have higher standards & sit my dog any time I want him to stay. It's just not necessary for me.
    A5 thanks for the reply! I can see your line of thinking there. Question: Is there a time where you want him to stay and sitting down isn't feasible?

    What Im thinking is: Remi sit...sit...sit(and stay until told otherwise - ok!) instead of Remi sit...stay...stay. This may be one of those "half a dozen in one hand/half a dozen in the other" type subjects. No right or wrong, just trainer preference?

    Im sure there are always going to be others that don't agree with what we all do. Its inevitable. I respect others opinions whether I agree or not. Im not one of those "oh I don't agree, he is wrong or I don't like him now" type guy, which seems to be many of those around! lol

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorslife89 View Post
    A5 thanks for the reply! I can see your line of thinking there. Question: Is there a time where you want him to stay and sitting down isn't feasible?

    What Im thinking is: Remi sit...sit...sit(and stay until told otherwise - ok!) instead of Remi sit...stay...stay. This may be one of those "half a dozen in one hand/half a dozen in the other" type subjects. No right or wrong, just trainer preference?
    I think I know what you're getting at. Feasible?? I think sitting is almost always feasible. There are lots of times, though, that I just don't give a rip if he sits or not. Thus "stay". When I command "sit" it's not followed w/ "stay". As I said, "sit" means put your butt on the ground & stay put. Works for us.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatzby View Post
    Just teach sit. I'm sure there is little in harm teaching stay but it doesn't accomplish anything more than sit does. I think saying "stay" is more psychological for the handler than anything.
    Have your dog sit before opening the front door, or at feeding time. When your ready for them to go out release them with "OK" or whatever command you want. Put their food dish down and release them to eat when your ready, vary how long you make them wait. Also "OK" is regularly used in normal conversation "all done" is probably a better choice. If you have multiple dogs I would release them on their name. This is really handy if you only want to let one dog out the front door.
    I do sort of teach "wait", I will say this when opening kennel doors or if I want the dog to wait on the tailgate to put his collar on. I only do this for the first few months and then it happens automatic.
    Thanks for the reply Gatzby! I think I am going to stick with just sit. I have been doing some of the things you have mentioned too. We do have Remi sit at the front door and when the door opens she goes in and sits again to remove the leash. Then I give the ok command. Same with her food. She sits until we put the bowl down, continues to sit until released with ok. She gets so excited with her food that I don't make her comply for any long period of time although this may increase as her attn. span does too. Longer sit for removing the leash. I have been using "ok" a lot and don't think Im going to change that command although I have seen that mentioned a few times in my last couple days of research. I think thats "ok" ? No pun intended lol. Last night I did 3 retrieves with her, a short break and back to 3 more retrieves. She wanted more so we stopped. Keeping her hungry for more. The last 3 retrieves, I threw the bumper and had her sit until released. She did really well for an excited pup! I don't know if I should push that too hard right now but it did make me think/lean more towards sitting to flush on command in the future.

    Ill add...She is doing well with leash training. She sits, comes, place and kennel with the leash. Down is taking her a little getting used to still as she is relying on my hand movement to show her down. Once she gets passed that Im going to start incorporating the whistle. I figure by the time all of this is picked up pretty much perfectly by Remi, itll be time for some e collar with leash training. I make her wear the e collar for training(not using it at all right now, just getting her used to wearing it).

    For your "wait" command...maybe Im getting carried away here but Im thinking to use "sit" for instances like that as that could just be a synonym for "stay" ? My line of thinking could be wrong here but that's my first reaction in thought of that. Interesting though and you've got my wheels turning if I should use that

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=outdoorslife89;231618]Thanks for the reply Gatzby! I think I am going to stick with just sit. I have been doing some of the things you have mentioned too. We do have Remi sit at the front door and when the door opens she goes in and sits again to remove the leash. Then I give the ok command. Same with her food. She sits until we put the bowl down, continues to sit until released with ok. She gets so excited with her food that I don't make her comply for any long period of time although this may increase as her attn. span does too. Longer sit for removing the leash. I have been using "ok" a lot and don't think Im going to change that command although I have seen that mentioned a few times in my last couple days of research. I think thats "ok" ? No pun intended lol. Last night I did 3 retrieves with her, a short break and back to 3 more retrieves. She wanted more so we stopped. Keeping her hungry for more. The last 3 retrieves, I threw the bumper and had her sit until released. She did really well for an excited pup! I don't know if I should push that too hard right now but it did make me think/lean more towards sitting to flush on command in the future.

    Ill add...She is doing well with leash training. She sits, comes, place and kennel with the leash. Down is taking her a little getting used to still as she is relying on my hand movement to show her down. Once she gets passed that Im going to start incorporating the whistle. I figure by the time all of this is picked up pretty much perfectly by Remi, itll be time for some e collar with leash training. I make her wear the e collar for training(not using it at all right now, just getting her used to wearing it).

    For your "wait" command...maybe Im getting carried away here but Im thinking to use "sit" for instances like that as that could just be a synonym for "stay" ? My line of thinking could be wrong here but that's my first reaction in thought of that. Interesting though and you've got my wheels turning if I should use that[/QUOTE

    My use of wait is less of a command and more of a soothing/calming thing to help a young pup not bust out of his kennel when the door opens or bail off the tailgate.

    I was having a hard time coming up with a reason to use stay while standing instead of having them sit. But when my dogs are on the tailgate I like them standing to put on their e-collar as I have a hard time reaching them when they're sitting. I don't use stay as they're conditioned to just stand there waiting for the collar but in effect that's what I've trained. I learned something new today.
    "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." M.Facklam

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