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Thread: More lead ammo shenanigans

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Santa Cruz, CA
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    83

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    Quote Originally Posted by calamari View Post
    I haven't been following what's going on with the condors much since I don't hunt big game any more or live in their range any more either. I thought they'd taken all the birds into captivity but then I saw recently that they had released a few in the Grand Canyon. If the lead levels are going up while in captivity they need to look at their Condor Chow formula.


    Personally, I hope all of them. As it is wardens set up a hunter road block on the Foresthill divide and give out all the tickets they want to write for over limits on squirrels when it opens. Those guys make quail hunting more exciting than it needs to be.
    Calamari - I think the lack of robust science and transparency of the work that had been done on the condors is what bothered me the most when that whole thing went down. Condors don't hang out exclusively in the Santa Lucia Mountains, so I don't understand why they first pursued the lead ban for just that area. And what are we in California to do about Arizona, where the condors go when they decide to ridge a thermal into the upper stratosphere?

    The lead isotope study was just simply ignored. Why?

    It became clear to me during the hearings that it was a play in a multi-step battle to ban hunting altogether in California. The HSUS implants, along with Senator Lieu are committed to chiseling away at the exterior of hunting until there is nothing left. We are so splintered as a community, we are an easy target for focused and targeted attacks. The ban on the use of hounds for Bobcat and Bear hunting was a prime example of the divide and conquer/chisel method. Heck, even without the attacks we sometimes self-destruct - look at the dissolution of COHA in 2013 (http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/features/227404 ).

    In the end, the dishonesty was what chapped my hide though.

    The thing that is the most unsettling to me though is watching what the Center For Biodiversity is doing to fishing in California. They are very successful at winning crazy court decisions. If they ever turn their attention to hunting, we will have a very skilled adversary with which to contend.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    83

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    Quote Originally Posted by quail hound View Post
    I've been told that steel 6's and 7's are the way to go and since steel loads only pack a 5/8th oz pay load I would think keeping shot size small is better. Thankfully I got over my "trigger happy" phase pretty quickly and limit myself to high average shots, I could probably save enough money to shoot bismuth if took my lunch to work mote often.
    I use the #7 low base Winchester steel loads for snipe at the refuges. That seems to stone them, provided I actually put the bird in the pattern.

    I know what you mean on the prioritization of expenses. If I scaled back my drinking on league bowling night, I could afford to blaze away with Remington HD all the time. So many important decisions to make...

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calisdad View Post
    If you give them permission to sterilize 22's what's to stop them from doing the same with your Citori?
    Personally, I think it's an issue that's a strawman put up by the NRA and similar groups who think we all should have the ability to own all the AK-47s with 100 round drums we want. Our government will never be more restrictive than Russia when it comes to gun ownership. They prohibit machine guns and pistols but allow every citizen to own 10 long guns. 5 rifled and 5 smooth bore including semi auto actions. I can't think of a single circumstance where that wouldn't be adequate for any purpose because after all you can only shoot two of them at the same time.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by enzinn View Post
    Thanks for link. How did you know where to find that?
    If you go to the DFW website it has a link on the right hand side to lead ban issues. That site has a list of the hearings and actions and what I posted was a link to the most recent hearing and action in the list.

    Notice that they are supposed to make the transition the least disruptive to hunters. i can't see how that can be possible but look forward to the attempt.
    Last edited by calamari; 12-04-2014 at 01:18 PM.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by enzinn View Post
    Heck, even without the attacks we sometimes self-destruct - look at the dissolution of COHA in 2013 (http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/features/227404 ).
    I think you're right about our ability as hunters to shoot ourselves instead of the hostages. I don't know about " The Outdoor Wire" claim that bribes were paid. In my experience working for a public agency it was always thought that money was exchanged for favorable decisions but over time everyone just came to the conclusion that the elected people we worked for were too stupid to ask for money and just did it because they were fawned over by people.
    One thing I would agree with them about is that Bill Gaines was and is a good friend to hunters. I had some dealings with him when he was with CWA and he made it clear that we were his first priority.

  6. #26

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    Russia just changed its laws to allow handgun ownership. Requirements are still cloudy as it just happened 11/22/14 but caliber limits are around 9mm with a max 10 round magazine, stun gun/ tazers included.

    There are 432 condors. Only 200 in captivity.

    This is a case for tort reform. If the CBD were to pay for court costs when they lose (make that 'if') they might back off a bit. Recently they started pushing for reintroduction of the grizzly bear. Now if they had to produce an EIR for every watershed where it's proposed it might cost them some bucks, just like it cost us and the CDFW $1M for every EIR they had to produce to continue stocking streams.

  7. #27

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    Time to ban flying. I just read AVGAS is the source of more than half the lead emissions in the US. How did that one slip by?

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calisdad View Post
    Russia just changed its laws to allow handgun ownership. Requirements are still cloudy as it just happened 11/22/14 but caliber limits are around 9mm with a max 10 round magazine, stun gun/ tazers included.
    Even less likely they're going to get my Citori now, Charlie. Besides, by the time they come to get it I'll have given all my ammo to you and you'll have to deal with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calisdad View Post
    There are 432 condors. Only 200 in captivity.
    Thanks, Charlie. I thought they got all of them. Then again maybe they did and have started to release them back to the wild.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calisdad View Post
    This is a case for tort reform. If the CBD were to pay for court costs when they lose (make that 'if') they might back off a bit. Recently they started pushing for reintroduction of the grizzly bear. Now if they had to produce an EIR for every watershed where it's proposed it might cost them some bucks, just like it cost us and the CDFW $1M for every EIR they had to produce to continue stocking streams.
    The California Environmental Quality Act that most of these suits are about was enacted in the 1970s so these state departments should be able to comply with it's requirements. Instead some people in the departments just figure they'll ignore it and then get whole programs jammed up as a result.
    The law provides for systemic EIRs that can be modified easily to address specific projects but instead they try to buffalo their way through the process. You're absolutely right Charlie that CBD should and would have to pay their court costs but they win the cases and don't have to. I'd suggest not getting mad at them because DFW does an inadequate job.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calisdad View Post
    Time to ban flying. I just read AVGAS is the source of more than half the lead emissions in the US. How did that one slip by?
    It didn't...sort of.

    By May 2012, the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA Unleaded Avgas Transition rulemaking committee) had put together a plan in conjunction with industry to replace leaded avgas with an unleaded alternative within 11 years. Given the progress already made on 100SF and G100UL, the replacement time might be shorter than that 2023 estimate.

  10. #30

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    "Even less likely they're going to get my Citori now, Charlie. Besides, by the time they come to get it I'll have given all my ammo to you and you'll have to deal with them."

    Too funny- and I was just doing a mental inventory to see which of my safe queens has to go because I can't shoot them anymore.

    "It didn't...sort of.

    By May 2012, the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA Unleaded Avgas Transition rulemaking committee) had put together a plan in conjunction with industry to replace leaded avgas with an unleaded alternative within 11 years. Given the progress already made on 100SF and G100UL, the replacement time might be shorter than that 2023 estimate. "

    I've got to quit believing everything I read on the internet.

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