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Bird2485
10-18-2010, 02:21 PM
New to Pheasant hunting. I bought Federal Wing Shok 1oz 7.5 shot 2 3/4" shells for my 20 gauge ithaca. Season opened this past saturday and i have gotten two birds so far. Both of the birds got absolutely creamed. I was probably around 15 or twenty yards from each bird when i shot them. The first bird was the worst because it was of course my first bird ever. I have been shooting a ton of trap to get ready for the season and i shot way too early and basically ruined the bird. My second bird ran a good ten feet before it flushed so i had the extra couple of seconds to get my head straight. I waited until it was up in the air a good 20 feet then i shot it. Once again though, one leg was basically gone, both breasts were shredded and one wing was hanging on by a thread. Am i missing some obvious part to this style of hunting or are these shells just too intense for pheasant? any input would be appreciated. Any suggestions for another load that might work better?

thanks

FCSpringer
10-18-2010, 05:08 PM
LOL,:D yeah you are just too excited, those ranges, you will blow them up with most anything. Wait till they are 25-30 yards, then shoot, take your time pull up follow through and squeeze, Only in heavy wind do you need to rush a shot. Stick with those shells though.
:cheers:

Dakotazeb
10-18-2010, 07:03 PM
FC is correct. You are shooing too fast. Let the bird get a little further out. The shells you are using are excellent for pheasants. You might consider trying #6 shot. With less pellets you won't have to dig as many out of the birds.

birdman652001
10-19-2010, 06:25 AM
I use federal wing shok all the time.. usually i start out with 4 shots and then later in the season when the pheasants are all jittery and take off before you get closer, i use 6 shots. 7.5 will blow them out if you are right there.


but other than that. i love those bullets and use them every year as well as i use the 150 grain federal shok for my 30.06 deer rifle as well.

Dakotazeb
10-19-2010, 07:58 AM
I use federal wing shok all the time.. usually i start out with 4 shots and then later in the season when the pheasants are all jittery and take off before you get closer, i use 6 shots. 7.5 will blow them out if you are right there.

Have you got this right? You say you start out with 4 shot and then switch to 6 or 7.5 shot later in the season when the birds are jittery and you can't get as close. Normally it is just the opposite. Guys will use 6 shot early in the season and change to 4 shot later.

onpoint
10-19-2010, 09:53 AM
Have you got this right? You say you start out with 4 shot and then switch to 6 or 7.5 shot later in the season when the birds are jittery and you can't get as close. Normally it is just the opposite. Guys will use 6 shot early in the season and change to 4 shot later.

Ditto, I increase the size of shot as distance to the bird increases. Late season almost always = 4's or 5's

Dakotazeb
10-19-2010, 09:58 AM
Ditto, I increase the size of shot as distance to the bird increases. Late season almost always = 4's or 5's

onpoint, I agree with you. But what birdman652001 said is the reverse of this. He said he shoots 4's early in the season and then swtiches to 6 & 7.5 later. I was questioning it he had this turned around.

onpoint
10-19-2010, 10:22 AM
I was agreeing with you:thumbsup:

bobeyerite
10-19-2010, 01:19 PM
Reading this, I am wondering what is he using for a Choke. If he is too tight like we usually are for trap. That would account for his blowing up the birds..........Bob

birdman652001
10-19-2010, 05:56 PM
Have you got this right? You say you start out with 4 shot and then switch to 6 or 7.5 shot later in the season when the birds are jittery and you can't get as close. Normally it is just the opposite. Guys will use 6 shot early in the season and change to 4 shot later.

no youre right.. i had the numbers backwards. i start with 6s and go to 4s.

Bird2485
10-19-2010, 08:29 PM
I am using a modified choke. i agree that it could be part of the problem. Another question i have for everyone, though this might not be the right part of the forum for it, is if you are using lead shot you cant make stock or broth with the bones or legs if they came in contact with the lead. Do most people just not make stock or is steel shot prefered when one is trying to use every part of the bird?
my plan for my birds before i crushed them was to turn the feathers into flies for fishing, demi with the bones, confit of leg, and sear the breasts. i didnt really think about the lead part of the equation until today. any comments or thoughts?

birdman652001
10-19-2010, 08:42 PM
I am using a modified choke. i agree that it could be part of the problem. Another question i have for everyone, though this might not be the right part of the forum for it, is if you are using lead shot you cant make stock or broth with the bones or legs if they came in contact with the lead. Do most people just not make stock or is steel shot prefered when one is trying to use every part of the bird?
my plan for my birds before i crushed them was to turn the feathers into flies for fishing, demi with the bones, confit of leg, and sear the breasts. i didnt really think about the lead part of the equation until today. any comments or thoughts?

i wouldnt use Lead shots unless you are target or clay shooting. I always use Steel shots..

when i was in the LETC, they had a sign says NO LEAD SHOTS... yah lead isnt something you wanna eat after you shot lead through it. Steel Shots if youre gonna eat it. lead on rabbits or skunks, or any varmits.. i wouldnt care then.

moellermd
10-19-2010, 08:44 PM
confit of leg.

The problem you might have is the lack of fat. Pheasants do not have near the fat as a goose or duck, making it hard to simmer them in there own fat. You might make "en-confit" using duck fat but I think it would just end up tasting like duck. If that is what your going for try it. As far as the lead goes I am not too worried about it.

moellermd
10-19-2010, 08:46 PM
yah lead isnt something you wanna eat after you shot lead through it.

What do you shoot your deer with?

birdman652001
10-19-2010, 09:01 PM
What do you shoot your deer with?

one bullet with little lead exposure isnt not a big deal compared to shots coming out of a shotgun shell with over many BBs coming out are lead.


when i butcher my deer, i always cut out the shot hole and anything else that has projectiled from that bullet gets thrown out. it would be a waste of alot of pheasant meat having 14 different lead holes in it.

I use Federal Power-Shok soft point 150 grain. love it.

Dakotazeb
10-19-2010, 09:04 PM
I use lead shot every chance I get and I eat all those roosters without ever giving it any thought. Been eating birds shot with lead for over 60 years. I think this lead thing is getting blown way out of proportion. Like moellermd said, "What do you shoot your deer with?" I've eaten a lot of venison killed with lead bullets and I'm still going strong.

moellermd
10-19-2010, 09:07 PM
one bullet with little lead exposure isnt not a big deal compared to shots coming out of a shotgun shell with over many BBs coming out are lead.


when i butcher my deer, i always cut out the shot hole and anything else that has projectiled from that bullet gets thrown out. it would be a waste of alot of pheasant meat having 14 different lead holes in it.

Not that I buy into the whole lead in deer thing, but a deer shot with a rifle has on average 136 fragments of lead in it.

birdman652001
10-19-2010, 09:09 PM
I use lead shot every chance I get and I eat all those roosters without ever giving it any thought. Been eating birds shot with lead for over 60 years. I think this lead thing is getting blown way out of proportion. Like moellermd said, "What do you shoot your deer with?" I've eaten a lot of venison killed with lead bullets and I'm still going strong.

my grandpa died from alzehimers and according to most dr's that he had visited said in older houses that had Lead paint or lead bullet that were in games and aluminum in older brand shaving creams has a big role in causing alzehimers.. maybe i heard wrong... I did not say this out of my mouth, just going by what i heard. its not a 100% cause to alzeheimers but does play a role in it.

birdman652001
10-19-2010, 09:11 PM
Not that I buy into the whole lead in deer thing, but a deer shot with a rifle has on average 136 fragments of lead in it.

okay.. so when you shoot a deer.. you should be shooting to its heart.. where ribs not always have the most meat where you get most meat is backribs and neck and so fourth. most shots ive done has been through and through the chest. not often i take meat from ribs on a deer


but again i dont wanna Hi Jack this thread to talking about me. I know lead exposures arent good. back to the OP's question. thanks. i speak my opinion but lately seems like my opinion has to be a heated topic. ive been in law enforcement and even at training, they dont want LEAD shots in the indoor shooting range bc of the high exposures of causing health issues. Lead is cheaper and we do use them FOR out door training.


my opinion.. i like using steel shots instead of a lead shot for pheasants... non lead for deer has proven inaccuracy... lead is better for RIFLES. end of my discussion about LEAD. OP asked, I answered MY OPINION. moving on and you can express your opinion... why point fingers at me? geesh.

birdman652001
10-19-2010, 09:24 PM
putting out RESOURCES!!!! end you guys drilling me with usless finger pointing at me.



A PDF about LEAD vs HEALTH.. read it.. for INDOOR shooting ranges.


http://www.nj.gov/health/surv/documents/firing_range_fs.pdf

want a debate...?





BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) — North Dakota health officials are recommending that pregnant women and young children avoid eating meat from wild game killed with lead bullets.
The recommendation is based on a study released Wednesday that examined the lead levels in the blood of more than 700 state residents. Those who ate wild game killed with lead bullets appeared to have higher lead levels than those who ate little or no wild game.

The study, conducted by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the state health department, is the first to connect lead traces in game with higher lead levels in the blood of game eaters, said Dr. Stephen Pickard, a CDC epidemiolgist who works with the state health department.

A separate study by Minnesota's Department of Natural Resources previously found that fragments from lead bullets spread as far as 18 inches away from the wound


Pickard said the study found "the more recent the consumption of wild game harvested with lead bullets, the higher the level of lead in the blood."

Officials in North Dakota and other states have warned about eating venison killed with lead ammunition since the spring, when a physician conducting tests using a CT scanner found lead in samples of donated deer meat





I could very much likely be exposed to lead today.. as i only shot 4 deer in my life and havent shot one since two years ago...

moellermd
10-19-2010, 09:35 PM
putting out RESOURCES!!!! end you guys drilling me with usless finger pointing at me.


There is no finger pointing. I am just trying to understand your rational and have a meaningful discussion. If you are opposed to using lead for fear of getting contaminated meat thats fine. But don't try and tell us that lead in birds is a bad thing but shooting a deer with a lead bullet is fine. Your own "resource" argues that you can't/should not use lead bullets for deer.

Bird2485
10-20-2010, 01:51 PM
if nothing else we as a group have stumbled upon an interesting topic which to my knowledge is not regularly talked about in hunting. When one goes to the store there are plenty of shotgun shells available which are not target load and have been made with lead. Though we as a country are quick to jump on the wagon when someone says something is bad for you (diet soda, microwaves, lead, plastic water bottles, etc..)
I have to say though that i have read several articles about lead and aluminum being major concerns for alzheimers, specifically alum. pots and pans used for cooking (ie the cheap sets of them that you see at kmart).

The term confit just like the term aioli have been morphed and changed heavily by american culture. aioli is not flavored mayo, its garlic mayo. But restaurants the nation wide will say spicy aioli, sweet aioli, roasted red pepper aioli just so they dont have to say mayo. aioli sounds expensive haha. But aioli is actually a specific sauce. Confit can also refer to just being submerged in liquid or fat. Confit of shallots, confit or carrot, or fennel, or celery. When i do a confit of game birds, i use what ever fat is available from the animal, render the fat from the skin, and then sub in clarified butter for the rest. I agree that duck fat would just ruin the mild flavor of pheasant.

moellermd
10-20-2010, 09:42 PM
Confit can also refer to just being submerged in liquid or fat. Confit of shallots, confit or carrot, or fennel, or celery.

I will have to disagree with you on that one. If there is one thing that hours of watching FOODTV has taught me is that true Confit is meat simmered in its own fat. "En-confit" is stuff simmered not in its own fat. I guess it is a "Kleenex" "Facial tissue" thing.

Bird2485
10-20-2010, 09:59 PM
i think its cool that you are interested in food because so many americans are not. its an important part of our lives and needs more attention. Though i must say that two years of the most intense culinary school in the US and five years of high end fine dining back of the house experience along with several hundreds of dollars worth of cook books has proven to me that confit is more just slow cooked in a liquid or a fat, though more specifically fat but not just the fat of the specific animal. Confit of lobster? no fat in a lobster. Confit of rabbit? have very little fat. Confit of shallot? no fat. Confit of garlic? no fat.

i dont care i guess but for what its worth, you can slow cook anything in almost anything and call it confit of........

moellermd
10-20-2010, 10:04 PM
Though i must say that two years of the most intense culinary school in the US and five years of high end fine dining back of the house experience along with several hundreds of dollars worth of cook .

Well that might trump my hours of watching Emeril say "bam".

CRP
10-21-2010, 11:43 AM
The initial study in ND (by an environmental wacko group) has been thouroughly debunked. The initial study was done by testing poorly processed/butchered meat by untrained personel. The CDC did a study afterwards, and found there was no indication of lead-poisening by those eating venison taken with lead projectiles. In fact, their findings concluded the folks tested in ND has less levels of lead in their blood than those tested in other areas.

birdman652001
10-21-2010, 06:58 PM
The initial study in ND (by an environmental wacko group) has been thouroughly debunked. The initial study was done by testing poorly processed/butchered meat by untrained personel. The CDC did a study afterwards, and found there was no indication of lead-poisening by those eating venison taken with lead projectiles. In fact, their findings concluded the folks tested in ND has less levels of lead in their blood than those tested in other areas.

where are the resources that i can go read them? Links? Facts? i mean i hear Lead can be unhealthy in numberous ways... and i didnt just see it from a ND research group. there are TONS and TONS of that LEAD poisoning information out there.

Bird2485
10-22-2010, 10:15 AM
I must agree with birdman652001. Studies on lead poisoning have been going on for decades. There are states where you arent supposed raise farm animals within a hundred feet of a house that has lead paint on it, NY included. I found this on the USDE site.


[I]"Paint, drinking water, and pollution seem to be the major sources of
lead. The long term effects of lead poisoning in children include
learning disabilities, decreased growth, hyperactivity, impaired hearing,
and even brain damage. If caught early, these effects can be limited by
reducing exposure to lead or by medical treatment. Lead can pass through
mother to baby.

Adults could show a variety of symptoms ranging from weakness to fatigue
and paralysis, gastrointestinal diseases, high blood pressure, and a host
of nervous system ailments.

There are simple tests that can determine the lead level in the body;
hair, finger nail, or other body tissues can be used. As a case in point,
a recent study at Argonne, using what is thought to be Beethoven's hair,
seem to suggest that the composer's ailments were due to lead poisoning.
Information on this should be available at WWW.ANL.GOV."

Ali Khounsary, Ph.D.
Advanced Photon Source

Bird2485
10-22-2010, 10:17 AM
http://magblog.audubon.org/lead-bullets-bad-humans-too


interesting tid bit also.

birdman652001
10-22-2010, 08:49 PM
I must agree with birdman652001. Studies on lead poisoning have been going on for decades. There are states where you arent supposed raise farm animals within a hundred feet of a house that has lead paint on it, NY included. I found this on the USDE site.


[I]"Paint, drinking water, and pollution seem to be the major sources of
lead. The long term effects of lead poisoning in children include
learning disabilities, decreased growth, hyperactivity, impaired hearing,
and even brain damage. If caught early, these effects can be limited by
reducing exposure to lead or by medical treatment. Lead can pass through
mother to baby.

Adults could show a variety of symptoms ranging from weakness to fatigue
and paralysis, gastrointestinal diseases, high blood pressure, and a host
of nervous system ailments.

There are simple tests that can determine the lead level in the body;
hair, finger nail, or other body tissues can be used. As a case in point,
a recent study at Argonne, using what is thought to be Beethoven's hair,
seem to suggest that the composer's ailments were due to lead poisoning.
Information on this should be available at WWW.ANL.GOV."

Ali Khounsary, Ph.D.
Advanced Photon Source



Its against the law too to buy a house that still has LEAD paint unless the new owner wants to WAIVE that, but most real estate agents would suggest you to repaint your house if it has lead paint on the interior... its in every report you get with a house of when the last roof was re-shingled or any other damages, sidings and such... one of those questions to the current homeowners asking does your house or of your knowledge have lead base paint... i could go on and on... LEAD is poisoning...