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torch
09-20-2010, 08:56 AM
I have been hunting pheasants once a year for about five years now. I would like to get more into bird hunting as well as sporting clays (which I have never done).
The gun I have is a Browning BPS pump. Very nice gun that was given to me by my dad. I would however like to move to a over/under. What gun would you recommend? I will probably buy used to keep price down.
Thanks in advance!

onpoint
09-20-2010, 09:00 AM
Browning Citori. Good quality, good priced and lots of them around

torch
09-20-2010, 09:07 AM
Thats what I was thinking. What should I look for when buying? I know nothing about chokes or anything else pertaining to the guns. Like I said just want to get more into clays and hunting. Looking for as much advice and information I can find.

onpoint
09-20-2010, 09:15 AM
Make sure you get a gun with choke tubes. No fixed choke guns(older). IMO, I would stick to a 12ga for the multi uses that you intend to use it for. Make sure that it's length of pull(stock length). Has not been cut, unless that is what's comfortable for you. Fit is very important, specially if you intend to get into the clays game. If you buy something at a good gun shop type place. I'm sure that they could help you with proper fit.

Calisdad
09-20-2010, 09:26 AM
I shoot a 20ga but the 28 and 410 gauge guys probably think I'm overdoing it. ;)

torch
09-20-2010, 09:30 AM
Any suggestions on barrel length? Also, I was thinking twelve gauge as that is what my BPS is now. Anybody believe I should use anything else or stick with the twelve.

bobeyerite
09-20-2010, 10:04 AM
Talking barrel length is like discussing Ford and Chevy. It is all what you prefer. I have shot shotgun for over 50 years. So I'm from the days of long barrels. I perfer the 28 inch for me I get a nice smoth swing from them. That I can keep going. If I should to 26 inch I stop my swing a lot. So I'm suggesting the 28 inch barrel. But like I said it is all what works best for you.............Bob

jonnyB
09-20-2010, 10:31 AM
Good morning:

Interesting question regarding "which gun."

For years I shot a 12 ga, browning A5, 26". Still have the gun but use it as a back-up; due to surgery, had to switch to a 20 ga, Bng. gold auto, 26" and use improved cyl most of the time. Lighter gun and less kick than the over/under.

I'm hunting over a dog so the pheasant shots are close - I don't bother with the long shots that tend to cripple. Use 7.5 shells - more pellets and better pattern than 6's.

I see lots of over/under guns at the sporting range...my shoulder can't take the pounding.

Good luck and good hunting.

jon

Calisdad
09-20-2010, 10:37 AM
Any suggestions on barrel length? Also, I was thinking twelve gauge as that is what my BPS is now. Anybody believe I should use anything else or stick with the twelve.

Ever hit a quail with a direct hit from a 12ga? Really not much point in it. I can understand wanting more lead flying in a sporting clays match or sitting in a goose blind but it isn't necessary for upland game. There isn't one gun that does everything well.

CRP
09-20-2010, 05:04 PM
Before you buy an O/U, try one with hunting loads first. O/U's are cool looking and handle nice, but will jar you pretty good with heavier loads than target loads. You should also try one of the new lightweight autoloaders too. A Browning Maxus weighs 7 lbs (like a 20GA) but cuts the recoil of those heavy hunting loads. My 3" Maxus cycles all loads tried from 7/8 oz clays loads at 1200 fps to the 3" mags.

I have Citori's in 12/16/20. The 16 and 20 see some pheasant action early, but the 625 (12GA) just sits in the safe waiting for the right buyer. Like some other older hunters, recoil is not tolerated as well as it once was, and the Maxus fits the bill.

torch
09-20-2010, 07:28 PM
went to a gun dealer today and fell in love with a Browning Liege...interesting gun. Any thoughts from anybody who knows more than me about guns. I would appreciate any info.

FCSpringer
09-20-2010, 09:32 PM
I have a Cortona and love it. Also Cesar Gurinie is a nice piece, but these are what fit me.

copheasanthunter
09-20-2010, 09:38 PM
I have a Browning Liege I bought in Germany, absolutely love it. Matter of fact I would love to have another but don't need any more Guns right now, especially since my wife is looking over my shoulder, yeh she just said I had that right. Darn :)

onpoint
09-20-2010, 09:47 PM
IMO, you want something with choke tubes. The drive is to ban lead shot nearly everywhere. You shouldn't fire steel, tungsten, Hevi-Shot, Remington HD, Etc through a fixed choke gun. Specially a older softer steel type guns made for shooting lead.

If it were me, I would be looking for a newer gun with interchangeable choke tubes. It also nice when shooting the clay games to be able to change chokes for certain stations.

torch
09-20-2010, 11:18 PM
On Point, can you educate me a bit on chokes...also why is shot other than lead for the gun I mentioned. Remember, I am a novice.
Also, I should mention, I would not like to spend more than a grand for now anyway.

torch
09-20-2010, 11:22 PM
copheasanthunter can you tell me a little more about your experiance with that gun. Is there anything I should be concerned about or look for if I were to buy one. What is the going price for a gun like that.
Are local gun dealers prices negotiable?

onpoint
09-20-2010, 11:43 PM
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_not_steel_shot_in_Belgium_Browning_Barrel

The use of steel shot doesn't directly have anything to do with a "Belgium" made shotgun barrel. The only significance is that the gun/barrel was manufactured in in Begium. The problem with steel shot can be a problem with any shotgun made before the steel shot came into use. The problem has to do with the choke. The use of lead shotshells didn't pose a problem because lead is soft compared to steel. The choke is a constriction at the end of the barrel that can change the shot pattern of the shotshell pellets. The inside diameter of a typical 12 gauge shotgun is about .726 +or- a few thousanths. The constriction of a full choke is about .030 thousanths tighter with a diameter of about .696

Steel shot doesn't compress the same a lead and as a result can damage an older gun not designed for steel shot. Most older guns can handle steel shot if they have a more open choke for example an Improved Cylinder choke. Another alternative is to use another non-lead alternative ie. bismuth. Even with new guns you shouldn't use Full Choke with steel. Modified Choke will generally produce relatively tight patterns with steel. If the gun has some collector value, don't take a chance. If you are determined to hunt with it and want to shoot steel shot, see a gun barrel specialist like Ballistic Specialties in Batesville Arkansas. They can do anything just about with a shotgun barrel.

torch
09-20-2010, 11:48 PM
Thanks for the info. I will be using some steel shot though much of the land I hunt I can use lead. I have no idea what choke this gun has. Maybe I should keep looking. I just liked the way this gun looked and felt and the price seemed fair.

onpoint
09-21-2010, 06:41 AM
This is my reasoning, IMO, the days of lead shot being legal are numbered. If deemed illegal, many, many fixed choke guns will become wall hangers. Simply put, the cost of other softer type non toxic shots like Bismuth, Kent Tungsten Matrix, Hevi Shot Classic Doubles, Etc., can run $3.00 to $5.00 plus per shell. Not many are going to afford that kind of ammo. It's your decision, I'm just thinking ahead.

BritChaser
09-21-2010, 09:12 AM
Thats what I was thinking. What should I look for when buying? I know nothing about chokes or anything else pertaining to the guns. Like I said just want to get more into clays and hunting. Looking for as much advice and information I can find.

Browning Citoris, "Citori" being what Browning calls all its o/u guns, have screw in Invector Plus choke tubes. The chokes range from "cylinder" (no choke) down to turkey (lotsa choke). For pheasant most hunters seem to shoot through skeet or improved cylinder for the first shot and modified for the second shot. In other words, your first shot is through a more open choke with a bigger pattern but less range and your second shot goes through a tighter choke with a smaller pattern but more range in case you missed your first shot or you're going for a double.

From cylinder to turkey, the chokes tighten as follows although I am not sure if Invector Plus makes all of them:

Cylinder
Skeet
Improved Cylinder
Light Modified
Modified
Improved modified
Full
Extra full/Turkey

I recommend an o/u gun for several reasons. They are shorter overall and carry lighter because of that. They are safer because you always know the status of your gun by breaking it open. They are simple -- less parts than pumps and autos. You have better shooting opportunites because of the two barrels with different chokes. You can also mix loads: No. 6 for your first shot, no. 5 for your second. If you miss on your first shot you have more range for that second shot or for the second bird on a double attempt. If you flush quail, you can easily pull out the pheasant loads and drop no. 7 1/2s or 8s in the barrels in just seconds.

I just got a new 625 Citori 12 ga. and love it. If Brownings are not at your price point, take a look at Stoeger Condor which are entry level. Also, for hunting you'll probably want a "Field" model rather than a "Sport" or "Sporting." Have fun gun shopping!

BritChaser
09-21-2010, 09:20 AM
Talking barrel length is like discussing Ford and Chevy. It is all what you prefer. I have shot shotgun for over 50 years. So I'm from the days of long barrels. I perfer the 28 inch for me I get a nice smoth swing from them. That I can keep going. If I should to 26 inch I stop my swing a lot. So I'm suggesting the 28 inch barrel. But like I said it is all what works best for you.............Bob

I agree with Bob.

Calisdad
09-21-2010, 09:27 AM
Just because a gun has screw in chokes doesn't mean its steel shot rated. Read the label.

blueweim
09-21-2010, 11:52 AM
if you are looking at o/u you should at least look at the browning cynergy. I have one with a syn stock and it is very light. the price point is a little better then the citori. the cynergy has a unique hinge that makes it a little stronger so in my mind more durable. I love it because it has all the benifits of o/u but it is not so pretty that I worry about scratching it as I climb over a fence or something.

BritChaser
09-21-2010, 01:36 PM
Thanks for the info. I will be using some steel shot though much of the land I hunt I can use lead. I have no idea what choke this gun has. Maybe I should keep looking. I just liked the way this gun looked and felt and the price seemed fair.

Invector Plus choke tubes specify that the modified choke is a full choke if steel shot is used and that the improved cylinder is modified for steel. Generally can't shoot steel through a full choke -- too much stress on the end of the barrel.

torch
09-21-2010, 01:49 PM
Thanks for all the great advice everybody. I would love a cynergy or citori but the prices seem out of my range. I have a hard time justifying or convincing the wife I need to spend 2g's on another gun. I would like to stay under 1,000. Are prices negotiable from a local gun shop?
Were is the best place to find a good gun at a good price?

torch
09-21-2010, 02:08 PM
Anybody have any thoughts on the stoeger condor? If you like it what model should i get?

bobeyerite
09-21-2010, 02:37 PM
A Stoeger to me is pure hunk of junk. I have had one that did break or fail to work straight out of the box. I wou get a Baikel before I'd get one of them........Bob

torch
09-21-2010, 03:15 PM
Ok, well anybody have any advice on finding a decent gun for a good price? I am having trouble. The best I have found (a little spendy) is a cynergy classic field for 1399.00 new. I would like to spend a lot less if possible and open to used guns. HELP!

BritChaser
09-21-2010, 03:18 PM
Anybody have any thoughts on the stoeger condor? If you like it what model should i get?

I have one of the early Stoeger Condors purchased new in '94. The new ones are much nicer than mine. A friend has one he bought about four years ago and it seemed pretty nice for the price. Again, Stoegers are entry level double barrel guns. My old '94 gun has never failed to function and is my back up to my Citori.

jmac
09-21-2010, 07:13 PM
I have one of the early Stoeger Condors purchased new in '94. The new ones are much nicer than mine. A friend has one he bought about four years ago and it seemed pretty nice for the price. Again, Stoegers are entry level double barrel guns. My old '94 gun has never failed to function and is my back up to my Citori.

BritChaser,

Is correct you, get what you pay for, not that the stoeger is a bad thing. But its not a high end gun, or even, a mid gun, its a cheap gun. NOT that it will not kill birds. Everbody has there price range, and everbody has there budget.

Stoeger, is a benille product. It's not a bad pick. :)

torch
09-21-2010, 07:33 PM
OK...Next question, can you all give me a list of choices you would recommend and what I should expect to pay.

UGLYDOG
09-21-2010, 07:54 PM
Are prices negotiable from a local gun shop?



Prices are ALWAYS negotiable. I went to a big box store once and tried to get them talked down on a $1700 gun b/c I had found it online for $1300. They wouldn't do it. Then I went to my local gun shop (who didn't have one in stock) and asked him how much he would charge to transfer a gun for me. THEN I asked if he could get the gun I wanted for the same price I had found online. Needless to say he ordered the gun at the price I wanted to pay. Usually they will do whatever is going to make them the most money.....

As for the Stoeger I will tell you my story. My buddy got one a long time ago and I liked it. His seemed to work good and he shot lots of birds with it. After awhile I decided to get one. When I got it home it wouldn't shoot out of one of the barrels. I had to send a brand new gun in to get fixed. I didn't trust it after that and got rid of it ASAP.

Good luck in your search. Go to lots of dealers and handle the guns and go home and research them online.

onpoint
09-21-2010, 08:22 PM
Look on www.gunbroker.com

A very good entry level O/U IMO is the Mossberg Silver Reserve. I had one and used a season or two and my son has had it for several seasons. It's never failed. Nice fit and finish for the price.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.aspx

bobeyerite
09-21-2010, 08:40 PM
Try cdnnsports.com they have some nice guns in your price range. Down load their catalog and you may see something you like. You have to have a gun dealer or someone with a FFL to have your gun shipped to.........Bob

tmrichardson
09-22-2010, 12:04 PM
Stoegers are OK depending on their manufacture. They have varied quite a bit over the years. I would not buy any of the newer brazilian made models. But have seen an older model made in spain I believe that was a quality gun IMO.

Browning's will be out of reach in your price range, but that's not a huge problem. Brownings are nice but rarely found as a bargain due to their high popularity, especially models light enough in weight to meet my desires in a field gun. Look into Franchi's, Verona, SKB's, LC Smith (the new ones made by Marlin), Ruger Red Labels--all decent guns.

In any double--O/U or SxS--you don't have receiver length to deal with. Where that comes into play is that you can have longer barrels on a shorter gun than you would in a gun with a receiver like your BPS.

For dual clays/hunting use I'd look into 28" barrels. A 30" barrel might suit you too--and may be no longer than your BPS. 26" is getting a tad short for clays work but they make nice field guns if balanced well. Shorter than 26" I would avoid esp. if you want to mix clays in.

On the choke thing and steel, it's not quite as dire as mentioned for modern guns. Reason being that most factory steel loads pattern fairly tight as is, and every one places the pellets in a protective shot cup. Where you really run into problems is when you choke steel down in mod-full chokes. The shot cup doesn't help you if steel pellets get constricted in a tight choke--lead will deform and fly right through with no problems to the barrel--steel being harder is less likely to deform and more likely to cause barrel problems.

But you can get by with more open chokes for most everything when using steel. I don't know all the clay games but other than trap I think you can get away with using light mod or Improved cylinder chokes and they will also be as tight as you need for pheasant or duck work over decoys. If you get into long range pass shooting of ducks or geese I'd agree you have more of a dillema.

tmrichardson
09-22-2010, 12:15 PM
Some examples for ya...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=191299180

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=191306926

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=191542169

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=191320294

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=190834142

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=191564742

Dakotazeb
09-22-2010, 05:08 PM
For $1,000 and under you can buy a pretty nice O/U. Certainly much better than a Stoeger. If the Citori's are too high priced I would look at a SKB. Here's an example: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=191173111

SKB's are great guns and you can't go wrong with one.

torch
09-28-2010, 06:13 PM
Well I am still trying to decide what to do but here is my latest. I found a Browning Citori White Lightning that I like. Price is more than I wanted to pay but I guess I may just go for it. What do you all think of this gun and what would you pay for a new one. Thanks

torch
09-28-2010, 11:41 PM
That brings up a good a point...I have always shot a twelve gauge and never considered anything else. Should I look into 20 or stay with 12? thoughts?

UGLYDOG
09-29-2010, 07:23 AM
Well I am still trying to decide what to do but here is my latest. I found a Browning Citori White Lightning that I like. Price is more than I wanted to pay but I guess I may just go for it. What do you all think of this gun and what would you pay for a new one. Thanks

cheapest I found online after a very quick search was $1567 with free shipping....

kdeckels
11-10-2010, 11:34 PM
I just went through is, ended up with a slightly used Ruger Red Label for $800. I couldn't keep looking forever, & the cheapest Browning I could find was $1500. I was going to buy a Remington spr310 at around $400, but the Ruger was local, felt good & I could shoot it.

Ruger's made right here in the U.S. of A., & what I read about their customer service won me over.

oldandnew
11-11-2010, 07:11 AM
I just saw your post. I think you will be delighted you did not buy the SPR310. I have one, took on trade. Built like a tank, swings like a 2x4, shoots low, as does every other one I've seen, along with badly timed ejectors. I can't hit anything with it, except as a club, can't even lie to anyone and try to sell it. Built by peasant stock in russian, might be OK to turn back the mongol hoard but sophistication, and function we are accustomed to lacking.

onpoint
11-11-2010, 08:07 AM
The Ruger is much better finished but you may need to use their great service history. They have had a history of reliability issues but Ruger stands behind them from what I understand