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sloth5202
08-04-2010, 08:33 AM
I know the discussion on chokes has been written about a lot on this website but I was thinking about it last night and came up with this....

Do any of you O/U guys ever use a choke set up where you use an IC on the first shot and then jump to IM for the second? Basically skipping one whole choke to reach out a little bit farther for that second shot.

My thinking being that it gives you a little more time on that second shot to really line up that bird instead of rushing it. I know that being a young impatient buck I sometimes panic after I miss that first shot and don't set myself up for that last shot. Maybe it would be more psychological than anything else. What do you guys think?

RoosterTim
08-04-2010, 08:47 AM
I have thought about doing that myself but have never gotten around to it. I don't know really if going to IM from M would help your pattern that much at a great distance.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_chokes.htm

This link shows an improvement of 7% for a standard american choke. It is an interesting idea and one that some field time could prove in a season. It also might be a confidence thing that knowing you have a little more distance gives you that extra good feeling. Just my ideas on the subject.

GSP
08-04-2010, 04:35 PM
For pheasants, at least where I hunt them, it makes some sense. The likelihood of a double is all but nonexistant. Hell, even a single phz is hard to find around these parts. So, a second shot fired is going to be at a bird missed by the first shot. A little more choke might be nice.

Fortunately, I hunt with a SXS with fixed chokes so I don't have to clutter my feable mind with such things. :D

tmrichardson
08-04-2010, 07:15 PM
Yes, and I know a number of people who do it as well.

When I'm shooting steel--which in the loads I pick tends to pattern a bit tight anyway--have used skeet/light mod on occasion.

bobeyerite
08-04-2010, 07:25 PM
There always has to be one technical butt on here so it might as well be me. Actually by going from IC to a IM you skipping 2 choke sizes. The SkeetII/Light Modified is .005 tighter than an IC, a Modified is .005 tighter than a SK2/LM. The Improved Modified is .005 tight than a modified. These are the listings for the 12 gauge. They choke sizes vary in the Different Gauges. Like in a 28 gauge the LM is only.002 tighter than an IC.

On your theory of skipping 2 chokes to get a longer range shot on the second barrel. Does hold water. But that depends on the shooter and how well he can judge the yards. What most hunters think is 25 yards, maybe something entirely different. Most hunter overestimate the ranges they shoot.......Bob

Bob M
08-04-2010, 09:42 PM
Check the adds for older British game guns and you see many choked cyl/full or ic/full. Somebody in the past thought this was a good idea.

On the other hand my little 16sxs came to me choked tight and tighter and I had both barrels opened to LM. I use it more than any other and feel no hinderance on any game. Course I shoot it the most, that makes a difference also.

BobM

JMc
08-05-2010, 08:55 AM
Technically Bob is right; but those are the chokes in my Cynergy's. If anything, it may be more mental for me than the physical action of the choke. I just seem to be more confident and successful with that choke set up; however, sometimes I "hits" em, sometimes I "misses" em...I'm sure it's not the chokes.

oldandnew
08-05-2010, 09:35 AM
My girls shoot turn ot the century Ithaca flues doubles, because they weigh about 51/2 lbs. in twenty gauge, both 26" barrels, chokes from the factory, cyl/ full, stamped 0/4 on the flats. Having said that, just recieved the fall issue of Shooting Sportsman, in which Michael McIntosh goes into great detail about the value of choke, in modern shotgunning. Essentially saying that choke is a hinderance to performance, and is an antiquated, useless, marketing tool of the gun manufacturers. Like fishing lures that catch fishermen. He argues that since Remington invented the polypropolene shot cup, in the 60's, chokes have become useless. We are talking about HUNTING now, not specialized target games. 99% of all shots at 35 yards or less, chokes figured at 40 yds, etc. He then takes on single selective triggers, not single triggers, but if no difference in choke? who needs a selector!! Personally, I don't think I'm quite ready for the cool aid yet, I spent most of my lyouth as a shooter of improved cylinder guns, hunted dang near every day of dove season, lots of quail and pheasant over dogs, some pointed some busted, ( didn't say they were reat dogs!), never really felt handicapped and developed a reputation among the locals as a no fly zone. A lot of the locals were shooting tighter constrictions. As I matured, I began to experiment with doubles, tighter chokes, etc. Amazed at the effect of tighter choke on wild flushing prairie grouse, and pheasants. Now I shoot a normal modified choke, at everything, I believe modified is the only choke which maintains the same pattern spread over the course of it's 40 yard pattern, I found imp cyl. and skeet1, to begin to degenerate after about 30 yards. Full more like a projectile at 10yds. For what it's worth.

Nimrod
08-05-2010, 10:11 AM
Chokes are about inches, misses are about feet.

Very few hunters are capable of hitting birds at the ranges they select loads/chokes for. If you are hitting birds at 45+ yds but not putting them down, you might consider a tighter choke. Otherwise, you're better off not over thinking the topic.

bobeyerite
08-05-2010, 10:17 AM
JMc Quote:I "hits" em, sometimes I "misses" em...I'm sure it's not the chokes.end quote

I am the same Jim, I find my biggest problem is I get into to much of hurry. That makes me not get my gun mounted properly causing the miss. Then I settle down and pray I get it on the second shot for there is no third. You would think with all the years I have been shooting I'd learn to slow down. But no such luck. That bird getting up gives me a full charge of adrenaline and it is back to the same old thing...........Bob

jmac
08-05-2010, 08:39 PM
bob and jim, the whole choke thing is, as you state. i shoot a ton of clays, trap, skeet, and sporting clays. I use full choke. i miss or i kill clean. I have used ic, mod, and others ,however full works the best. i shot for the head. i load my gun with no 6, 5, 4. in that order. i do this because ive patterned my guns with these loads. thats what works for me. no disagreement with any one on this thread. oh, i hunt pheasants with an auto. what i do:)

Bob M
08-05-2010, 08:51 PM
The other Bob has a good point here......There is an old saying in the combat pistol circles where power, accuracy, and elapsed time (speed) is all part of the score," You can't miss fast enough to win!"

I think if we would all S L O W D O W N the mount and get the bird centered in the pattern then chokes would not be as much of a concern on most normal bird encounters.

BobM

sloth5202
08-06-2010, 07:29 AM
Great responses guys!! My take away from this is don't overthink shooting.... Just slowdown and practice practice practice. No amount of choke strategy can replace time at the range and being comfortable.... and with a bird taking flight we all know that comfortable is a relative term once that adrenaline kicks in....

GSP
08-06-2010, 07:23 PM
Great responses guys!! My take away from this is don't overthink shooting.... Just slowdown and practice practice practice. No amount of choke strategy can replace time at the range and being comfortable.... ....

Precisely what I was getting at when I said that I was thankful my guns have fixed chokes. :cheers:

tmrichardson
08-07-2010, 12:45 PM
Chokes are about inches, misses are about feet.

Very few hunters are capable of hitting birds at the ranges they select loads/chokes for. If you are hitting birds at 45+ yds but not putting them down, you might consider a tighter choke. Otherwise, you're better off not over thinking the topic.

To belabor the topic...one could say the same thing in reverse.

If you are just barely hitting birds at 15-20 yards, you may want to go with a more open choke. Yes you can tighten/calibrate your shooting with a full choke at that range, but some of us like to eat our birds too.

If you can consistently hit the head of a bird with a full choke then you have no need to consider anything anyone tells you--but I might ask what you do with what I find to be the majority of shooting situations on wild pheasants--birds going away from you?

It's less than ideal to pull your shotgun wad out of a birds backside, dontcha think? :)

tmrichardson
08-07-2010, 12:50 PM
I'd also add to bobeyrites post that there are two choke constrictions labelled as "skeet".

He's right in that a light modified choke is also sometimes called "skeet2"

Skeet 1 is a hair tighter than wide open cylinder and a bit more open than improved cylinder. Skeet 1 is also the choke I think 90% of people think of when you just say "skeet".

Also, if you shoot just lead and low budget ammo or target ammo, I tend to agree with the overthinking advice to some extent.

The problems come in when you mix/match non-toxic or steel with lead, or run some of the advanced loads with special wads are technology that tends to have them patterning tighter.

I can shoot 4 different boxes of ammo I have through the same gun with the same choke and get different enough results on paper that yes, choke DOES matter!

To simplify things, mostly a lot of the more advanced ammo and steel tends to pattern tighter in the same gun with same choke than cheap lead does. (note "cheap" does not mean it won't perform well for you)

bobeyerite
08-07-2010, 12:51 PM
TMR, OR when you pick the bird up it stretches from your waist to the ground..........Bob

jmac
08-08-2010, 11:37 AM
To belabor the topic...one could say the same thing in reverse.

If you are just barely hitting birds at 15-20 yards, you may want to go with a more open choke. Yes you can tighten/calibrate your shooting with a full choke at that range, but some of us like to eat our birds too.

If you can consistently hit the head of a bird with a full choke then you have no need to consider anything anyone tells you--but I might ask what you do with what I find to be the majority of shooting situations on wild pheasants--birds going away from you?

It's less than ideal to pull your shotgun wad out of a birds backside, dontcha think? :)

tmr,
you make an excellent point, about flushing birds going away. i let them fly far enough out before shooting them, so i dont turn them inside out.

A couple of years ago, I took a friend of mine, to one of those, put and shoot places, for pheasants. My friend had never been hunting for pheasants.
The alfalfa field was very wet, and the birds held tight. We literally had to kick them up. My friend kicked one up, and bang. The guide and my self got to watch as the barrel, of his gun, was about one foot, from the roosters, back side. After the guide and my self regained or composer. I told him you might want to let them get out a little bite farther before shooting them. I will never forget watching the wad going thought that poor bird. :eek:

I wouldnt say that I always hit the heads, but thats what i try to do, because, i do like to eat them.:)

Mr Hyde
08-08-2010, 03:44 PM
I don't what you guys think but I have been using a pattern master as a choke for a long time never had a problem.
IMO shooting birds is like playing golf it's not the equipment it's the mental aspect of things.

jnormanh
08-08-2010, 06:05 PM
I don't what you guys think but I have been using a pattern master as a choke for a long time never had a problem.
IMO shooting birds is like playing golf it's not the equipment it's the mental aspect of things.

You're right on, Mr. Hyde. Many years ago I had the good fortune to watch the great Wayne Mayes shoot. His gun was an old, beat and battered Winchester 1400, worth maybe $75. 35 years later he is still putting the rest of them on the bench. Just this year he established another long run record with the .410.

Year after year, he beat all comers, including all the $25K Kreighoff and Perazzi shooters.

oscar
08-08-2010, 08:03 PM
I shoot skeet first and then modified.