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lchunter
02-23-2010, 10:02 PM
quick question. My brother-in-law is looking to buy a 300 win mag to shoot elk and bear this fall. If you guys had to choose a rifle, what would you choose?

mnmthunting
02-24-2010, 09:57 AM
It would be hard to have a better elk rifle then a 300 Win Mag.

BleuBijou
02-24-2010, 02:54 PM
I own a whopper 30 cal. gun, but it is expensive to shoot even though I reload. My brother has a 300 ultra, nephew a 300 win short mag, my buddy a 300 short mag. I am impressed with those short magnums. I have shot both the 300 win and the 300 win short mag and would have to give the nod to the short mag. Select the right bullet and weight and he will have a gun for most anything. Someday I will have a 325 win short mag. With my 30-378 I have taken elk out as far as 509 yds. My bear was at 70 yds, and he didn't know what hit him, just rolled down the mountain dead. Good luck!!:thumbsup:

lchunter
02-24-2010, 03:10 PM
I guess I didn't make it real clear. He is for sure getting a 300 Win Mag. What brand and model would you guys get?

daniel77
02-24-2010, 03:49 PM
That would really depend on his budget. No question in my mind that I would go with a bolt action of some sort. I'm a big fan of the Rem 700 action, especially if you want to tweak it a bit yourself. The Win 70, Ruger 77, Savage/Stevens, Tikkas, Weatherby/Howa, Mauser 98 clones, and Brownings a-x bolts are all good guns. I used to really like the Kimbers, but you see quite a few complaints about bad barrels for the last 5-8 years or so. I'd also bet that he could find a used one in good condition right now for a song if he doesn't have to have that new car smell. For the money, the Savage/stevens, and Howa rifles are very well thought of, if you don't mind ugly. You can even get the syn/stainless Savage/stevens or Howa cheap enough to throw away the rubbermaid stocks and put a decent laminated or non-injection molded synthetic stock on them for $200 or so.:cheers:

BleuBijou
02-24-2010, 04:34 PM
All I will say, is that if he wants to skimp, money wise, do it on the gun and not the glass! I mean , if he is on a budget. Wouldn't go with a composite stock, because he might not like the recoil with larger grain bullets. Have him check out the actions and the feel of the rifles and see what he likes, it is really personal preference , they all will kill elk or bear.

blackcloud27
02-24-2010, 06:04 PM
300 win mag is a good caliber. some of my friends have them and shot bears with them. easier to find ammo for this caliber also. i have a 300 ultra mag hard to find ammo for it. thats why i reload. i reload for them also. very accurate. we shot praire dogs with them at 700+ yards

Matt D
02-24-2010, 06:07 PM
In the past I would have said hands down only Remington or Weatherby depending on what dollar amount he was wanting to spend. I would still recommend both of those but from what I have been hearing the Savages deserve a look if budget is coming into play. I think the Remington 700 has been the best shooting out of the box gun made and the Weatherby, well, it's a weatherby, enough said. I am talking Mark V's only. I have not experienced it but I have heard the Savage is very close to the Remington now in out of the box shooting so that is why I say they now figure in to the discussion.

I agree with the posts above that if money is a large constraint then skimp some on the gun and put more towards the scope.

Matt D

onpoint
02-24-2010, 06:25 PM
I own a whopper 30 cal. gun, but it is expensive to shoot even though I reload. My brother has a 300 ultra, nephew a 300 win short mag, my buddy a 300 short mag. I am impressed with those short magnums. I have shot both the 300 win and the 300 win short mag and would have to give the nod to the short mag. Select the right bullet and weight and he will have a gun for most anything. Someday I will have a 325 win short mag. With my 30-378 I have taken elk out as far as 509 yds. My bear was at 70 yds, and he didn't know what hit him, just rolled down the mountain dead. Good luck!!:thumbsup:

I shoot a 30-378 also. If I were buying a new 30 cal Mag today. I would buy a 300 RUM. If he set on a 300 Win. mag. I'm a model 70 Winchester man myself. The model 70 has been voted The Rifleman's rifle by every gun magazine there is.

EEK
02-24-2010, 06:33 PM
I have been shooting the Tikka T3 lite in 300WSM, its accurate, light, has a short bolt throw and a very slick action, they sell new here for 500.00 at Sportsmans. Great rifle, i will buy one for my boy this year in 308 or 243. Recoil is a bit heavy with max handloads as they are about 6.5 pounds without glass, another nice rifle is the Browning A-Bolt or X-Bolt. Whatever you do buy nice glass or its just a waste of time, i like the Ziess Conquest line, awsome glass, tough and can be found resonable online. Buy once, cry once.

daniel77
02-24-2010, 07:48 PM
I shoot a 30-378 also. If I were buying a new 30 cal Mag today. I would buy a 300 RUM. If he set on a 300 Win. mag. I'm a model 70 Winchester man myself. The model 70 has been voted The Rifleman's rifle by every gun magazine there is.

That was the pre '64 model 70 that was known as the "Rifleman's Rifle". Some folks really like the ability to load a round with the gun upside down, while others figure that'll never happen.:D

onpoint
02-24-2010, 08:52 PM
Todays model 70 is even better then the pre 64 and is still called The Rifleman's Rifle. It still has control round feed, 3 position safety and is smoother then ever, built on CNC machines that have closer tolerances then ever.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/category.asp?family=001C
Quote
"Model 70‚?Ę The Rifle America Loves.
The most respected bolt-action rifle in the world. The Model 70 remains the All-American rifleman‚??s rifle. It has always been a rifle for the ages, and today‚??s new Model 70 is the bolt-action rifle for the future. Experience for yourself the precision, accuracy and unparalleled performance this rifle has to offer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L57e_OFnomI

daniel77
02-24-2010, 09:42 PM
Not trying to start a pissing match over this, but the post '64 model 70's were somewhat of a disaster for Winchester. They were trying to cut costs and manufacture a cheaper action to compete with the Rem 700, and by pretty much all accounts, they lost that battle. True enough that Win improved and went back to the older CRF mauser style (though not completely) in the early '90s. But, as I've heard the title used, the "rifleman's rifle" refers specifically to the pre '64's and that classic nostalgic style bringing back the flavors of better times and quality firearms. Not a big deal either way. Just always heard that that title came from the gun rag voting for gun of the year at some point prior to '64. However, the post '64 falling out of favor pretty well lead to the rise of the rem 700 which then got the military contracts and has never looked back.

I am definitely a fan of the model 70's with CRF, so please don't take this as me bashing that action, but there is a reason why so few custom rifles are made from the post '64's.

I've actually started a poll on another (more specifically gun related) forum that I'm on to see if others agree with the way I've understood it, or not. If anyone wants to know, I'll happily post a link to that thread here so ya'll can see for yourselves. I'm curious, as this is the first time I've heard that title used to cover ALL model 70's. Then again, I've been wrong twice this year already. Of course, one of those times, I thought I was wrong, but it turned out I was mistaken.:cheers:

daniel77
02-24-2010, 10:15 PM
Hope cross posting links to other sites isn't against the rules, but here is the poll I set up on the "rifleman's rifle"

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9411043/m/8861036721/showpollresults/Y

onpoint
02-24-2010, 11:27 PM
I never said that the post 64 push feed was "The Rifleman's rifle" some may say that. I'm referring to the control round feed rifles both of today and yesterday. I see you have taken to try and prove me wrong and that can only lead to no good. The rules say keep it friendly and that's what I intend to do. If a leading gun publication's and the manufacture calls them that. That's good enough for me.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/win_70.htm

You have a great day

Onpoint

daniel77
02-25-2010, 07:19 AM
I was merely trying to shed some light on the subject, not bust your bells. You, in fact, posted links trying to prove your case, when I was just meaning to clarify for those who may not have known the model 70 story. Am I not entitled to do the same? When/where was I unfriendly? My feathers aren't ruffled and I didn't mean to ruffle yours.

I won't argue against the CRF point, so we mostly agree after all, though some might argue further about the extractor of yesteryear vs the modern version. Just wanted to point out that there was a fairly major difference there for 30 years or so, during which the model 70 would never have been considered the "rifleman's rifle" by any gun nut, other than an advertiser working for Winchester. The pre '64 will always hold a special place in gun history. :cheers:

Dakotazeb
02-25-2010, 09:43 AM
Back to the originally question: The best rifle for both elk and bear.

I think it would be helpful to know what kind of bear you are thinking about. If you are thinking of something larger than black bears like Griz or Browns then I would consider a .338 Win. Mag. That's what I own and I feel it is a great large caliber rifle. The .338 shoots a lot flatter than most people think. I've taken a 5 pt. bull at over 500 yards with mine Even if you don't plan to hunt the larger bears the .338 might be a good choice. Many places that you hunt elk are also Grizzly country and having a little larger rifle is nice.

All the other caliber's are good and will do the job. I'm just throwing out a pitch for the .338 Win. Mag.

mnmthunting
02-25-2010, 10:01 AM
I used a 300 WM for a lot of years on Elk and Deer. Model 70. Good gun. Very accurate.
Now I either use a 3006 or a 270 [mostly] in model 70's. Good guns:)
Shot a yote yesterday out 1/4 mile with the 270, 130 Fed Premium.:cool:
Missed the first shot then nailed him the second another 100 feet away.

The last few elk I've killed have been with the 270, 130 grain. Yup, it is considered a little light. Shot placement is still #1, the big guns will still wound with a poor shot.

Dakotazeb
02-25-2010, 10:12 AM
mnmthunting, I also am a .270 Win. fan and have taken as many elk with my .270 as I have with my .338. But through dangerous bear into the equation and I'd be more comfortable with the .338.

By the way, both my .270 Win. and .338 Win. Mag. are idential guns. They are the Winchester Model 70 SM. The SM stand for "synthetic" stock and "matte" finish on the metal. They also have the Mauser style CRF action. These "SM's" were only made for 2 years in the mid 90's. They are both great rifles and each is topped with a Leupold Vari-X II 3-9.

onpoint
02-25-2010, 11:18 AM
The 338 win mag is a great round. I have had several. Call me old school but if I was going into Griz country to hunt. I prefer the 375 H&H. I had a 375 RUM I wish I would have kept from time to time.

Right now I'm shooting a Weatherby Accu-Mark in 30-378 with a Leopold VX-III 4.5-14. I shoot 180 grain Barns X of one variation or another. It's a no Kentucky windage flat shooting mutha foe. I have shot deer from 50ft to over 500 yards all one shot kills.

I have a true love for the new model 70 Featherweight in 270 Win. I had a very nice Ruger #1 in 300 Win. A fantastic gun. My son wants another one in 300 Winchester. He shot his first deer with that gun. Might buy him one.

Problem with the 300 Winchester is it's short neck on it's case. Large bullets must be seated deep into the case, taking up powder capacity. Hurting it's performance. The 300 WBY mag or 300 RUM is a much better choice in a 30 cal mag.

Onpoint

BritChaser
02-25-2010, 01:38 PM
A friend who is a gunsmith and champion shooter says Savages are the most accurate high powered rifles out of the box.

VZWman
02-25-2010, 01:51 PM
A friend who is a gunsmith and champion shooter says Savages are the most accurate high powered rifles out of the box.

Even compared to the new Remington 700?

onpoint
02-25-2010, 03:05 PM
A friend who is a gunsmith and champion shooter says Savages are the most accurate high powered rifles out of the box.

They are. It has to do with their system of head spacing the gun. Along with a great trigger with the accu trigger. They just aren't the best feeding bolt on the market

lchunter
02-25-2010, 09:41 PM
Thanks guys. By the way he is shooting black bear. I think he is leaning towards a Remington 700 BDL with a Zeiss scope

mnmthunting
02-26-2010, 09:37 AM
Up in this country black bears are hunted a very close range in heavy woods.
I believe the 12 gauge slug. With open sights to be the best bear gun.:thumbsup:

lchunter
02-26-2010, 09:48 AM
The guy he is hunting with doesn't use baits, so it will be a longer shot

Britlover
03-30-2010, 08:58 PM
Savages are hands down the most accurate "out of the box" rifles I own. The new Weather Warrior has an integrated pillar bedding block in the stock and should be even more consistent than the one I bought a couple years ago.

I like the Ruger 77 because it is a controlled feed, and if I was hunting bear I'd like that little bit of extra reliability in the feed mechanism even if it is marginal.

A Remington 700 in a McMillan stock is a sweet shooting combination too.

200 gr Partitions seem to be what my Ruger 300 WM likes best.