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Rooster Roaster
11-13-2009, 11:07 PM
Are the Remington Nitro Pheasant loads in the same league as the Federal Pheasant Forever and Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loads?

I'm looking at their 12 gauge 1 1/4 oz 1400 fps loads.

I have some older Remington "Premier Pheasant" loads and they have not impressed me.

Thanks for any info you can pass along.

Dave

birdshooter
11-14-2009, 08:31 AM
We'll they are very similar to the Federals in the ballistics you just mentioned. Everyone has their favorite brand/load etc... but in reality the premium shells from most manufacturers are very close. They will perform much better than the best of wingshooters.

I see no reason to believe that the Remington's would not perform as well as the others. Now that is not to say that one will not pattern slightly better than the other out of your gun, but in the real world that will not put any more birds on the table. NO matter what ammo you are using they are only as good as the person pulling the trigger.

Go for it if the price is right.

Rooster Roaster
11-14-2009, 08:37 AM
Thanks.

I should have focused my question a little better. As you probably know, the quality of the shot itself is a big factor. Those older Remington Premier Pheasant loads have pretty soft shot, even though they're copper plated.

Mainly, I'm wondering if the "Nitro" line has better shot these days, and of course any actual field experience anyone can pass along.

Thanks again.

birdshooter
11-14-2009, 09:55 AM
What makes you think they are copper plating soft lead shot? If its copper plated I wouldn't think they are using soft lead. Kind of defeats the purpose of copper plating it?? The purpose of copper plating or nickel plating is to make hard shot even harder which produces less flyers, thus a more consistent pattern.

I actually have a box of the Nitro loads (1-3/8oz #4). Haven't used them yet though. According to the box they are using magnum (hard) copper plated shot. That's about as hard as it's going to get sans Nickel plating.

Rooster Roaster
11-14-2009, 06:00 PM
Because I can take the shot with a pliers and crush it like mush. If I take some Lawrence copper plated magnum shot that I reload I can hardly crush it at all in the pliers.

Plating doesn't "harden" shot and much of todays copper plating is a copper wash, not true plating anyway.

There's a difference.

These Remington "Premier Pheasant" loads are a few years old and I don't think they are on the market anymore. I bought a bunch at Fleet Farm for $9.99/box. They are not the current the current "copper plated" "Nitro" loads. Just wondering if anyone has tried these newer Nitro's and/or know that they have true hard shot, how they perform, etc. Some of the cheap bargain loads claim to have hard shot, but they are NOT using quality hard shot.

Not trying to be combative or a know-it-all, just want to hear from someone who has some experience with these loads.

jnormanh
11-14-2009, 07:25 PM
Because I can take the shot with a pliers and crush it like mush. If I take some Lawrence copper plated magnum shot that I reload I can hardly crush it at all in the pliers.

Plating doesn't "harden" shot and much of todays copper plating is a copper wash, not true plating anyway.

There's a difference.

These Remington "Premier Pheasant" loads are a few years old and I don't think they are on the market anymore. I bought a bunch at Fleet Farm for $9.99/box. They are not the current the current "copper plated" "Nitro" loads. Just wondering if anyone has tried these newer Nitro's and/or know that they have true hard shot, how they perform, etc. Some of the cheap bargain loads claim to have hard shot, but they are NOT using quality hard shot.

Not trying to be combative or a know-it-all, just want to hear from someone who has some experience with these loads.

The plating of shot, whether copper or nickel adds nothing to hardness. In every case the plating is less than .001" thick, and usually less than .0001" It's a sales gimmick, nothing more.

Some shot is alloyed with tin or antimony, which does make it harder than pure lead, but you'll be hard pressed to know which is which. The claims of "hard shot", "magnum shot", etc are, just like plated shot, nothing more than advertising claims.

The theory of shot distortion causing poor patterns due to shot deformation may have had some validity back in the days of high-button shoes, but since the advent of polyethylene shot cups (1960s), shot deformation is a non issue.

Other claims like "nitro" are just sales gimmicks too. ALL smokeless powder is "nitro". "High velocity"? What's that? It's meaningless unless the actual velocity is stated.

Old wive's tales and urban legends continue forever.

You can easily prove the truth for yourself. Get some 48" wide butcher paper and a piece of plywood, and shoot some patterns at 30 or 40 measured yards. Pattern some "cheapo" $7 shells and some "premium" $15 shells of the same shot size and weight, and compare the results. I can promise you that you will not be able to tell them apart.

moellermd
11-14-2009, 09:22 PM
You can easily prove the truth for yourself. Get some 48" wide butcher paper and a piece of plywood, and shoot some patterns at 30 or 40 measured yards. Pattern some "cheapo" $7 shells and some "premium" $15 shells of the same shot size and weight, and compare the results. I can promise you that you will not be able to tell them apart.

I have done that. There was a big difference. The shot pattern of the premium loads was much more uniform and the shot count in the circle was significantly higher.

jnormanh
11-15-2009, 12:53 PM
I have done that. There was a big difference. The shot pattern of the premium loads was much more uniform and the shot count in the circle was significantly higher.

I've never been able to see a difference, but I'll take your word that you have.

Here's a comment on the subject from Neil Winston, who I know has spent many, many hours studying shotgun patterns. He agrees with you on the superiority of hard shot, although he finds the difference relatively small.

http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/thread.cfm?threadid=185766&Messages=6#357326

wisturkeyhunter
11-15-2009, 01:51 PM
I've patterned lots of different plated and unplated shot and noticed big differences. Even unplated shot that is marketed as being hard and highly polished like kent diamond shot does not pattern as uniform as copper plated shot. Nickel plated loads by b+p and fiocchi pattern even better than copper plated shot.

birdshooter
11-15-2009, 03:53 PM
Plating doesn't "harden" shot and much of todays copper plating is a copper wash, not true plating anyway.


The plating of shot, whether copper or nickel adds nothing to hardness. In every case the plating is less than .001" thick, and usually less than .0001" It's a sales gimmick, nothing more.

Where are you guys getting your information from? I don't mean to imply that your wrong, just curious as to your sources.

Everything I have ever read states that plating lead shot, whether copper and especially nickel states the opposite.

jnormanh
11-15-2009, 06:48 PM
Where are you guys getting your information from? I don't mean to imply that your wrong, just curious as to your sources.

Everything I have ever read states that plating lead shot, whether copper and especially nickel states the opposite.

For my part, I worked for 40 years in the plating industry, and I can tell you that electroplated .001" on shot is absolutely impractical, .0001" is reasonable, but not easy.

Here's once reference which talks about "flash" copper plating on shot. Within the plating industry "flash" means <.0001"

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=66

Some confusion arises because of confusion with metal jacketed and/or copper clad bullets. In those cases, the copper clad layer is stamped from thin copper sheet, perhaps .005'-.010" thick, into which lead bullets are pressed. At those thicknesses, it does serve to contain expansion/distortion/fragmenting.

You could ask any of the shotshell manufacturers how thick their copper/nickel plating is. I'll hazard a guess they will not tell you.

Or you could try a simple experiment. Empty plated shot form a shell, then, holding the shot stationary, wipe a piece of medium grit sandpaper across it. You will cut trough the plating in a single wipe. Then try sandpapering a clad bullet. It will take dozens of strokes to cut through the cladding.

wisturkeyhunter
11-15-2009, 07:42 PM
You can site years of works experience, and sand paper fiddlins but the patterning board is dead opposite of what your saying. Hundreds of articles, books, and internet post have been made that also say your dead wrong. Patterns aside plated shot draws less feathers, and also deforms less both of which increase penetration. Better penetration and better patterns are never bad and its fact that plating makes a difference in both regards.

Rooster Roaster
11-15-2009, 08:00 PM
Where are you guys getting your information from? I don't mean to imply that your wrong, just curious as to your sources.


I've read it from a modern shotgun ballistics expert named Tom Roster. I've also been told the same by Larry Brown who writes regular columns in Pointing Dog Journal and other hunting magazines, and Larry has written an excellent book on pheasant hunting. I shoot clay targets every summer with Larry and we have corresponded for years. Even sold him a couple shotguns. These guys have far more industry knowledge than I do, and I trust their statements.

moellermd
11-15-2009, 08:31 PM
You can site years of works experience, and sand paper fiddlins but the patterning board is dead opposite of what your saying. Hundreds of articles, books, and internet post have been made that also say your dead wrong. Patterns aside plated shot draws less feathers, and also deforms less both of which increase penetration. Better penetration and better patterns are never bad and its fact that plating makes a difference in both regards.

Well I'd agree with you on the patterning. But those guys are dead right on the hardness thing. No one but the ammo companies claim copper plating increases hardness, from what I have read nickle plating adds a little. The decrease in deformed pellets probably is due to a harder lead to begin with. The reason you see less feather draw is the plating does create a smoother outside texture which grabs less feathers.

wisturkeyhunter
11-15-2009, 08:36 PM
You can't have it both ways either it increases patterning cause it harder or it does not. Take a plain lead even good quality lead, and copper plated lead and hit it softly with a happy tell me what one deforms more. I do agree with the feather draw cause its smoother and thats a good thing. I mostly shoot nickel plated shot anyways.

moellermd
11-15-2009, 09:22 PM
My point is that the lead shot was harder to begin with that is the big reason for less deformed shot hence tighter pattern. Also the smoother outside creates a more aerodynamic surface creating truer flight. Bob Brister talks about this in his book Shotgunning The Art and Science. No one believes that the copper adds hardness.

Rooster Roaster
11-15-2009, 10:06 PM
My point is that the lead shot was harder to begin with that is the big reason for less deformed shot hence tighter pattern. Also the smoother outside creates a more aerodynamic surface creating truer flight. Bob Brister talks about this in his book Shotgunning The Art and Science. No one believes that the copper adds hardness.


Agreed! A good part of deformed shot comes from "setback." When shot goes from 0 to about 900 miles per hour in an instant, the pellets at the bottom of the cup get smushed by the top portion of the load. Good hard shot helps reduce the setback deformation problem. Better uniform patterns follow.

birdshooter
11-17-2009, 09:21 PM
I emailed the boys at Ballistic Products and here was an attachment they sent me.

COPPER/NICKEL PLATED LEAD SHOT
Charles Olin, the driving force behind Winchester-Olin (pre WWII) was an innovative duck hunter – and factory manager. This fine gentleman created many novel improvements in the world of shotshells. We all owe the man for his wisdom - and for his badgering of load engineers for products HE desired. Items such as buffered loads and plated shot were only a portion of his long list of load creations.
Copper plated shot may be laid on any quality of lead shot. Hard lead shot or soft lead shot. There are loads wherein a soft lead base increases pellet lethality. Lead accepts a copper coating thick or thin. Thick plating allows lead pellets to penetrate through feathers, muscle and fat, deep inside to the vitals of your target. Thin plating allows soft lead pellets to penetrate, then drop energy in muscle tissue.
In order to NICKEL plate a lead pellet, the lead must first be coated with a thin (blush coating) of copper, as nickel will not adhere to lead. Nickel provides a mirror smooth finish on a pellet allowing far deeper penetration. Deep penetration allows even smaller diameter pellets to become far more lethal and to present solid shot streams into all targets. (The Italian and Spanish Olympic skeet teams use nickel plated shot and all too often skunk the other teams.)
The use of soft lead pellets (less or possibly no antimony being added to the lead slurry) depends upon the intended target and the desired result. Many older shooters swear SOFT lead pellets, especially those of a size or two larger than usually associated with the intended game, carried high energy levels to the target. Certainly physics supports this construction. The intent was to deposit a high level of energy upon the target surface (or just below the surface) thus utilizing shock (an instant sharp rise in blood pressure) to produce instant lethality. Deep penetration in this case, is not the primary desire. Thus the choice of soft lead pellets and hard lead pellets remains the shooters choice upon the TARGET. So then gauge the shooters intent. What is the shooter attempting to accomplish?
Theory: Clay targets break even with one pellet when “hard” lead is utilized. Prove it! Hard lead pellets “pattern better” than softer lead pellets. Again, prove it. (Patterning is accomplished by NOT moving your shotgun. How many targets are shot without moving a shotgun? Few! Therefore with gun movement, you shoot a stream of shot. (Not a “pattern”.) Shot streams take far different forms than stationary “patterns”. Patterning tells the shooter where this particular shotgun (and sighting picture) is sending a stationary shot stream. (Up, down, left, right). Nothing else. You have no idea which pellets arrived at the target first or last.


I stand corrected on the plating of soft lead.

Bearded Beast
11-19-2009, 12:25 PM
You can never go wrong with the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant.

Rooster Roaster
11-21-2009, 10:24 PM
Well, since we have two pages of posts here and no one could tell me about the newest Remington "Nitro Pheasant" loads, I bought a box today and I'll find out for myself which is how I pretty much know everything I know that's worth knowing in you know what I mean! Ya know?

Soon as I fill my WI deer tag I'll be back after those roosters.

mountaindave
02-06-2010, 02:58 AM
Also be careful about choosing magnum over standard loads. I bought 20 ga. Remington Nitro Pheasant loads in both 3" magnum 1-1/4 oz. #5 and 2-3/4" 1 oz. #5 and they both delivered about the same number of pellets to the patterning board at 40 yards with a modified choke tube. Why waste money and pellets and pound your shoulder with a "magnum" load when a standard load will perform the same?

kansashunting
02-06-2010, 01:41 PM
I was using the #5 nitro pheasant loads with 1400 fps. I felt like I couldn't hardy hit anything with them. But then I switched the #6 shot. I had much better results with the smaller shot. Its a little slower (1300fps) and is gonna have a few more pellets but the birds can't tell much, or rather they can tell the difference. I also bought some Federal pheasant loads that would get mixed in with the Remingtons and they performed well also for me.

Really the thing to do is to get used to a specific shot. Each one is gonna perform a little differently then the next. Take em out to a range and shoot a few clay birds with em and see how they perform. It may be a little expensive doing this but in the end you should save some money on wasted shots, plus more birds in the bag!

bobeyerite
02-06-2010, 02:17 PM
There is a point in all shotgun and shells where excessive speed like 1400FPS could blow your pattern, like Kansashunting said he was not hitting much with his. When he slowed to 1300 and 6 shot he started getting birds. When you consider the standard over the years for a 20 gauge hunting load has been 1220PFS. It is understandable, where 1300 is good and 1400 is bad. This notion of where more speed is better is just not true. He is right, check you loads and make sure they perform well before going out after birds........Bob

moellermd
02-06-2010, 10:22 PM
There is a point in all shotgun and shells where excessive speed like 1400FPS could blow your pattern, like Kansashunting said he was not hitting much with his. When he slowed to 1300 and 6 shot he started getting birds. When you consider the standard over the years for a 20 gauge hunting load has been 1220PFS. It is understandable, where 1300 is good and 1400 is bad. This notion of where more speed is better is just not true. He is right, check you loads and make sure they perform well before going out after birds........Bob

How am I supposed to kill the bird faster than my buddy if my shot is not faster.

moellermd
02-06-2010, 10:27 PM
There is a point in all shotgun and shells where excessive speed like 1400FPS could blow your pattern

Bob can you elaborate?

bobeyerite
02-06-2010, 11:02 PM
I'm no physics major, so I cannot really tell you. I only know what my reading has told me. As I understand that it is simply your shot get going so fast that the shot creates holes in your pattern to where a bird can fly through it. That is why they say put them on a pattern board and you will see if your gun makes holes or the shot holds together. Every gun is different some take the speed, some don't.

Speaking from my 55 years of shooting experience. I have always found shells that are made close to the gauge standard. Perform the best for me. Most of my trap load are 1200 fps and slower. My best load is actually 1187, which is made with WSF powder. My 20 gauge hunting loads are all standard 1220fps with 1 ounce of shot high base pheasant loads. If you want 12 gauge, the standard 1330fps with 1 1/4 ounce of shot. For many years that was all you could buy. You did your varying with shot size and choke. That is why 2 barreled guns were so popular. It was common in those days to load a pump for example 6, 5, 4, shot. Anyway enough of this.........Bob

tmrichardson
02-07-2010, 12:20 PM
What I've noticed over the years is a pattern of frequent clay bird shooters reacting badly to any heavy and/or fast loads. In their game they shoot mild loads as that's needed with the hundreds of round they punch their shoulder with. When they go hunting they seek out the same--and because they mostly shoot pretty well--they kill birds.

Proper placement of a shot charge downrange--at a reasonable range for the charge and bird being shot at--will always trump load size and speed.

But size and speed do have their place.

If you can hit the head of a crossing pheasant at 30 yards with some consistency you don't need anything heavy or fancy and small gauges will do fine. But for the south end of a north bound pheasant at 40-45 yards, speed can make some difference, as can load size.

I'm not a big fan of heavy loads for anything but turkeys but I do like a bit more speed for pheasants in lead and a lot more in steel. Not sure that 1400fps is needed for lead though--1300+ is plenty in my experience.

I've moved more towards nitro steel for most of my pheasant shooting but when I reach for lead I have done pretty well with either Fiocchi Golden pheasant or Reminton Nitro-pheasant. Both pattern well for me. Win. Super pheasant hasn't done as well in one of my guns--the others I haven't patterned with them yet so can't say.

1pheas4
02-23-2010, 07:44 PM
Rooster Roaster, I'm not going to get into whats what with platting etc. All I can say is I've used the nitro lead and nitro steel. They each cost around $20.00 a box (give or take a couple of bucks). These loads are NOT the same as those "nito" $9.99 a box.

The more costly nitro loads throw out a lot of power. I don't usually take crazy shots, but I can tell you I've taken a few with these loads and was amazed at the amount of damage done to the birds at such distances.

I'd give them a try and make sure they are the last shell you fire. I noticed the pattern takes quit some distance to open up. Also, Remington insists they add 50 yards to your shot. From what I've experienced this is the case.

Hope this helps.

bobeyerite
02-23-2010, 08:19 PM
[QUOTE 1pheas4] I'd give them a try and make sure they are the last shell you fire. I noticed the pattern takes quit some distance to open up. Also, Remington insists they add 50 yards to your shot. From what I've experienced this is the case.[quote]

1Pheas4, Could you tell me where you found this. That they add 50 yards to your shot. That means you would be reaching out 80-100 yards. Or do you mean they will reach and give clean kills at 50 yards? To kill a bird at that distance, I find it very hard to believe. Give an address, where I can read this for myself please.......Bob

1pheas4
02-24-2010, 12:56 AM
bobeyerite, first of all I would like to say I was reluctant to post my last reply because of how ridiculous it sounds,and also I'm not one for boasting so please don't take it the wrong way. Again, as I said in the last post I very rarely take crazy shots like the ones I described.

Two of the three birds shot at these distances were pen birds that my hunting partners missed so I gave it an "ahh what the heck" and shot. To our amazment, both times those birds were hit very hard by those lead nitro magnum 4's. My hunting partners said those shots were 80 yards and I would agree.

The third bird was this past fall. A young wild rooster went up around 35-40 yard. I peppered him in the first shot, missed on the second, and knocked him hard on the third. Again with the nitro. He was busted up really hard. I couldn't believe it myself.

As far as we‚??re I read about the nitro magnum adding 50 yards to your shot; that was on the box of nitro magnums. I read this back in 2005 while in S.D. pheasant hunting This is when I first started using nitros. I had to read it over again, because I thought I miss read the box. I told my hunting partners what I read and they too had to read it for themselves.

Go to Cabala‚??s and check them out. I went on their website and they sell for $25 to 29.99 a box. NITRO MAGNUM LEAD. It's a green and bright yellow box.

Also, I was looking online for stats but couldn't find any. All I found was info on nitro turkey loads and some guy that feels nitro lead should be outlawed (lol). Hope this helps.:)

1pheas4
02-24-2010, 01:02 AM
Bobeyerite "they will reach and give clean kills at 50 yards?"

This may be the case too Bobeyerite. I'll check out a box of Nitro mags. as soon as I can so we can get it streight. It may be a case of "can increase shot up to 50 yards". Not, "adding 50 yards". I'll get back to you as soon as I can.:cheers:

moellermd
02-24-2010, 09:29 AM
So how does a shell add 50 yards? I think the choke has a much bigger effect on pattern lethality and distance. Even if the shell did add 50 yards some how that pattern would be so tight at 20 to 30 yards you would be destroying birds. I think you might have misread the box.

1pheas4
02-24-2010, 09:46 AM
So how does a shell add 50 yards? I think the choke has a much bigger effect on pattern lethality and distance. Even if the shell did add 50 yards some how that pattern would be so tight at 20 to 30 yards you would be destroying birds. I think you might have misread the box.

I would obviously agree the choke has a lot to do with shot pattern and distance. But like I stated in an earlier post I don't use nitro mag's for my first two shots because I have a heck of a time hitting birds with them at closer range just because they seem to keep such a tight pattern.

My brother swears by them for all three of his shots, but as a result his birds are hit up too hard. I like to eat pheasant breast not pheasant hamburger.

I'm preparing for our PF banquet today so I'm not sure I'll get to cabala’s to take a look at the box. Tomorrow should be good. Either way, these shells most definitely pack the hardest punch out of all the shells I've tried (and that's most of them on the market).;)

Nimrod
02-24-2010, 12:36 PM
Very few hunters should even try a shot past 40 yds or so and within that range there simply won‚??t be any difference in the lethality of a shotshell assuming you‚??re using at least # 6 pellets shooting approximately an IC pattern. It‚??s human nature to blame the shell or choke when you miss a big cackling rooster but frankly if you didn‚??t move the gun to the right place when you pulled the trigger, changing shells or choke tubes won‚??t help anything except possibly your confidence.

bobeyerite
02-24-2010, 03:58 PM
1Pheas4, Thank you for the update, I have tried the nitro's on trap. But they are an entirely different load. I got a buy on a case of them. To be honest I was never so happy to see a case of shells gone. They really beat me up with the recoil.........Bob

Labman
02-24-2010, 04:45 PM
You can never go wrong with the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant.

I also use the Fiocchi Golden pheasant in 4's and 5's. Good pheasant loads.

Nimrod
02-24-2010, 05:44 PM
I‚??ve done an informal ‚??pinch test‚?Ě squeezing the shot from several manufacturers w/ pliers to determine relative hardness and the Fiocchi nickel plated was among the hardest. What I don‚??t like about it is the payload of 1 3/8 oz which is all I can find around here. That‚??s just more shot than is necessary and combined w/ the listed velocity of 1,485 fps, I don‚??t see the need to get my teeth rattled to kill a bird. From shooting a lot of long range pheasants for my spaniel club training and field trials, I‚??m convinced that there is no need to exceed 1 ¬ľ oz of nickel plated #5s to bring down any rooster I can hit.

My long time hunting buddy invited 2 new guys this year who both came loaded for bear w/ #4 shot, heavy payload shells. They both had the idea that they were in a quick draw match to see who could shoot first but fortunately they usually missed. The birds they did hit were torn up so bad that I wouldn‚??t send my dog to retrieve them. Neither of these guys had the ability to hit a bird past 30 yds so all they were doing is clobbering both the birds and their shoulders.

onpoint
02-24-2010, 09:01 PM
I never had a bad Remington shell. They have always been among my first choice but are not always available.

Add's 50yards to your shot?

I have known some brands of beer to do that after the hunt but never heard of a ammunition company boasting this.

Onpoint

moellermd
02-24-2010, 09:40 PM
I have known some brands of beer to do that after the hunt but never heard of a ammunition company boasting this.

Onpoint

That is classic :thumbsup:

1pheas4
06-26-2010, 12:16 PM
Rooster Roaster, I'm not going to get into whats what with platting etc. All I can say is I've used the nitro lead and nitro steel. They each cost around $20.00 a box (give or take a couple of bucks). These loads are NOT the same as those "nito" $9.99 a box.

The more costly nitro loads throw out a lot of power. I don't usually take crazy shots, but I can tell you I've taken a few with these loads and was amazed at the amount of damage done to the birds at such distances.

I'd give them a try and make sure they are the last shell you fire. I noticed the pattern takes quit some distance to open up. Also, Remington insists they add 50 yards to your shot. From what I've experienced this is the case.

Hope this helps.

Major Correction on this one. Sorry guys about the jack-ass mix up and it took so long to get a hold on a box!! My buddy had a box in his basement (green and yellow) and these Nitros add 45 Ft not 50 yards! Sorry about miss-leading any one with this post:). Even so, a GREAT shell! I highly recommend giving them a try for late season birds:thumbsup:. 1Pheas4

kansasbrittany
06-26-2010, 12:26 PM
Yes, they are my favorite shell to use as well. Excellent knock down power and range.

Gove County Britts
06-26-2010, 01:46 PM
you dont need those fancy shells I use reloads with number five and they kill just as many

CRP
07-29-2010, 08:52 PM
I have used Kent FastLead #4, Rem Nitro #4, Fed WingShok #6, and Win Super-Pheasant #5 on tough to kill late season birds. Of all these "high-velocity" wonder loads, they all worked well but the Win SP. The Rem Nitro probably took the most birds.

Will likely switch from a Benelli SBE II to a Browning Maxus for the heavy loads this fall. The gas guns just cut the recoil more, which this older hunter is starting to appreciate.

1pheas4
07-30-2010, 12:05 AM
CRP--I've been using an Browning A-5 and Browning Evolve with the Nitros.
There was a definite difference in recoil compared to using Nitros with my over and under. Still, even with the gas operated shot guns the kick was very hard compared to the other loads.

Also, I don't know if you noticed or not, but I was in Gander MTN a few days ago. I Wanted to buy a box of 3in. Nitro lead #5's. The cost went up to $35.00 a box:eek: I think I may run with another brand this year. :)--1Pheas4

CRP
07-30-2010, 08:51 AM
Yes, those 3" jobs will let you know when you fire them. But, those 3" 4's coupled with a IM or Full will crumple those late season tough birds. Hopefully, you will only need to fire a few to get a limit, or wear a THICK coat!

Regarding price, all of the high-velocity or specialty ammo is going through the roof.

tmrichardson
07-31-2010, 12:00 PM
You can't use gander mountain prices as an indicator of average--for ammo at least they are ridiculously high priced. Shop around. I routinely buy remington nitros at $15-$17 a box at most, sometimes a tad cheaper on sale.

And you don't need 3" shells for pheasants! The 2 3/4" ones work just as well, and in my experience often pattern better too.

1pheas4
07-31-2010, 12:13 PM
You can't use gander mountain prices as an indicator of average--for ammo at least they are ridiculously high priced. Shop around. I routinely buy remington nitros at $15-$17 a box at most, sometimes a tad cheaper on sale.

And you don't need 3" shells for pheasants! The 2 3/4" ones work just as well, and in my experience often pattern better too.


Tmricharson, I've seen Nitros for around that price too ($15-$17) but they're not the same grade as the Nitros in the green and yellow box. It's thoughs' guys that cost more. There's differant grades of Nitro shells.
I'll shop around for some better prices too. Thanks for the tip:cheers:

CRP
07-31-2010, 01:31 PM
I only use the 3" shells on a windy day when its hard to get closer shots on birds hunted hard all season. It's the difference between going home without birds or a limit of birds.

1pheas4
07-31-2010, 02:02 PM
I only use the 3" shells on a windy day when its hard to get closer shots on birds hunted hard all season. It's the difference between going home without birds or a limit of birds.


I've never tryed 3" lead before. One hunting buddy uses them (3") and recommended giving them a try. I'm looking forward to givning them a run this season.

When shooting lead I've always used 2 3/4 in. Steel I use fast steel 3" 1,550fps and have good success with those all season long.

CRP
07-31-2010, 03:51 PM
For most of the season the standard 2 3/4" 12GA load (1 1/4 oz x 1330fps) does just fine. Many moons ago this load was called the "Duck and Pheasant" load and was usually on sale at most gunshops or Mart's etc right before the season opened.

only a pointer
08-01-2010, 09:14 PM
I'm no physics major, so I cannot really tell you. I only know what my reading has told me. As I understand that it is simply your shot get going so fast that the shot creates holes in your pattern to where a bird can fly through it. That is why they say put them on a pattern board and you will see if your gun makes holes or the shot holds together. Every gun is different some take the speed, some don't.

Speaking from my 55 years of shooting experience. I have always found shells that are made close to the gauge standard. Perform the best for me. Most of my trap load are 1200 fps and slower. My best load is actually 1187, which is made with WSF powder. My 20 gauge hunting loads are all standard 1220fps with 1 ounce of shot high base pheasant loads. If you want 12 gauge, the standard 1330fps with 1 1/4 ounce of shot. For many years that was all you could buy. You did your varying with shot size and choke. That is why 2 barreled guns were so popular. It was common in those days to load a pump for example 6, 5, 4, shot. Anyway enough of this.........Bob
i really have thought lots about what you said bob even before you typed this i shoot fiocchi 5s i think the 1485 fps and i miss tons of close shots with them im going to buy some slower loads like you have 12 to 1300 i really think there is holes in the pattern also with close shots and i have exellent eyes but i have made a few long shots with them but 80percent are close and im missing and i know im on them

bobeyerite
08-01-2010, 09:27 PM
Only A Pointer, What choke are you using on those close shots with the 1485FPS shells? If your choke is not an open one, you could be going by those close shots like a bullet. If you notice in the example I stated 6,5,4, for pumps and auto's. I shoot mainly O/U's. I'm usually open IC in the bottom with 7 shot and Modified in the top with 6 shot. I hope this helps.........Bob

only a pointer
08-02-2010, 03:18 PM
Only A Pointer, What choke are you using on those close shots with the 1485FPS shells? If your choke is not an open one, you could be going by those close shots like a bullet. If you notice in the example I stated 6,5,4, for pumps and auto's. I shoot mainly O/U's. I'm usually open IC in the bottom with 7 shot and Modified in the top with 6 shot. I hope this helps.........Bob5s in a mod 20 to 30 yard shots 12 guage auto i just kind remember when i was a kid i bought pheasant loads that just had a pic of a pheasant on there never even read fps or anything just bought 6s and called it good and hardly ever missed like i do now once i bought the high priced fast shells just gets in my head

tmrichardson
08-02-2010, 11:58 PM
Every load can pattern a bit differently in different guns and the with different chokes in different guns, as well.

In the patterning I have done, the really fast loads that achieve that speed with quality components and REDUCED weights of shot have always patterned better, i.e. with few to no holes in the pattern. More is not always better!

There's a point where you can have too few pellets for longer shots at pheasants, but you aren't likely to encounter that in a 12 gauge or even 16 gauge factory load.

tmrichardson
08-03-2010, 12:05 AM
Tmricharson, I've seen Nitros for around that price too ($15-$17) but they're not the same grade as the Nitros in the green and yellow box. It's thoughs' guys that cost more. There's differant grades of Nitro shells.
I'll shop around for some better prices too. Thanks for the tip:cheers:

Not sure where my head was when I typed that, but I had a lot of things turned around!

I was thinking Nitro Steel's--which I find at $15 a box or so. The nitro pheasant lead leads I think I have been buying at a buck or two cheaper. They have two other lead loads with pheasants on the box--a plain pheasant load and a sure shot load that are a bit cheaper yet.

I don't see much of the stuff I think you are talking about--which I think is not labelled nitro but is called xpress extra long range--in the green and yellow box.

That IS expensive, but I see that at $22 a box or so.

Nitro steel is really good stuff for me and I'd buy that for all my pheasant use before I'd pay 6 to 7 bucks more for a lead load!

For a few years or so now good to excellent steel loads have been cheaper than some of the premium lead loads, the old price of steel issue isn't an issue anymore....

kgpcr
10-24-2010, 07:16 PM
I have never been a fan of it. Nothing bad to say about it but it just did not work as well as my Federal ammo

1pheas4
10-24-2010, 09:15 PM
I have never been a fan of it. Nothing bad to say about it but it just did not work as well as my Federal ammo

Federal has some great loads too. I tried their Prairie Storm shells this past week in SD. They put a good dent in some birds. I was very pleased with them.

For the public land I switched to Rem. Hypersonic steel. They really made a huge differance with killing the birds using steel shot. Give them a try next time you need to use steel shot. Let me know what you think. :)--1pheas4

onpoint
10-24-2010, 09:50 PM
I'll second the Hyper Sonic. The best steel shot I have ever used

CRP
10-25-2010, 08:10 AM
Going way back to the original posting question, I would rate (IMHO) the premium loads as follows:

1. Fiocchi Golden Pheasant/Fed. Wing-Shok
2. Rem. Nitro Pheasant
3. Kent FastLead
4. Win. Supreme HV
5. Win. Super-Pheasant

While the first three loads have all patterned OK and are very lethal, I have not had the same level of performance with either of the Win loads. Also, while these loads are great for late-season wild birds, they are really overkill for the earlier parts of the season.