PDA

View Full Version : Speed good or bad



bobeyerite
03-24-2009, 08:55 PM
What is your feeling of these newer high speed shotgun shells? They now have them going up to 1500FPS. That is one fast shot shell. But are they doing you any good? What is your experience with them?----Bob

UGUIDE
03-24-2009, 09:09 PM
Well, I'll tell you one thing, when you walk into Ganders and see them for sale for $25/box you change your mind real FAST. I went back to standard high base/brass and shoot 4/5 shot and do just fine. $10/box is about right.

kiotehntr
03-24-2009, 09:46 PM
I shoot the Federal High Brass and they move at 1500fps, but like I have stated before I'll shoot Federal ammo no matter what the price tag is. I shoot #5 or #6 loads and love them. They have all the knock down power that I want.

FCSpringer
03-24-2009, 09:48 PM
Yes they are that good. I use the PFE fed prems. 1500s, and I kill way more birds now and they are dead. Longer range and don't lead them as far at all. I also use the kent 1 1/8 oz. 7 1/2 shot low base diamond shot. those suckers fly out at 1450 fps for a low base thats prety awsome. These work prety good for pheasants too and I would think would be a great Quail load.

UGUIDE
03-24-2009, 10:22 PM
I shoot the Federal High Brass and they move at 1500fps, but like I have stated before I'll shoot Federal ammo no matter what the price tag is. I shoot #5 or #6 loads and love them. They have all the knock down power that I want.

The Federal high brass I shoot are more like 1350FPS. I've found that shooting # 4's works good for upping the deadbird %.

You must be talking about the PF Federal shell? $$?

crockett
03-25-2009, 07:53 AM
Last season I was frustrated with some cheap shells (all that I could get around here, where hunting supply is generally abysmal). Sure, it may have been a bit of a cop-out for some poor dog work and poor shooting (which I am ALSO working on for '09!), but I still found that I crippled and lost my first two birds ever with it, so I vowed never to shoot the stuff again...

I considered ordering the good Federal stuff, but it's hard to get here in Canada, and the price is quite high. I have had good luck with the hardened "diamond shot" from Kent in their "Traditional Upland" load, which has now been discontinued. They have replaced it with a fast lead product. I got together with some other guys for a big order at a good price - so we each ended up with a mixed case (4/5/6) of Kent's new high-speed lead called Fast Lead. The loads that we got are 2 3/4 moving 1 3/8 oz of hardened shot at 1475 fps with 4 1/2 dram eq. I have not shot them yet, but I am optimistic that this will be a good product for me. Price ended up being 16$ Canadian per box, but that was a special deal through a good connection. I believe that retail is about 20$ Canadian per box. Cost is not an issue for me, not because I'm rich :D but because our pheasant densities are quite low here in Nova Scotia, so I don't go through enough shells for it to be important (compared to coffee, gas and dog food!). Anyhow, I'll report back once I pattern them and get into the season.

The reasons that I am hopeful for them (getting back to the speed question) is that I shoot MANY more waterfowl loads in a season that I do pheasant loads. The steel that I shoot is very fast, so I figure that I can imporove my success by shooting shells of similar speed for all birds. Also, like most others, most of my misses are behind, so a bit more speed will help with that. Lastly, speed helps with a bit more range (although I'm not kidding myself here into thinking that this means that I don't have to keep working with the dog and I don't expect to be taking silly long-range sky-busting shots either!).

-Croc

kiotehntr
03-25-2009, 08:01 AM
The Federal high brass I shoot are more like 1350FPS. I've found that shooting # 4's works good for upping the deadbird %.

You must be talking about the PF Federal shell? $$?I am and I should've clarified that my bad....

Dakotazeb
03-25-2009, 02:29 PM
I also have had very good success with the Federal PF loads at 1,500 fps. The cheapest I can find them now is about $15 per box. But I look at it this way. I might shoot a case of shells per year. So even if I bought $10 shells I'd only save $50. Consider the cost of my guns, SUV, dogs, misc. gear, license and gas, that $50 is nothing for a premium shell that I know works. Do I need them? No, but I like them.

Now with the 16 ga. I just bought I think I'll go with the Federal PF loads also. 1 1/8 oz. of shot at 1,425 fps. However, I have about 2 boxes of older 16 ga. Federal High Powers I need to use up first.

But then its' like I said in another post on this forum. Sometimes I think we over analyze these things. When I was a kid back in the 50's and early 60's we grabbed whatever shells were available and went hunting. Never gave it much thought and we still killed birds. And shells back then were about $3 a box. Considering inflation $15 a box today probably isn't too bad. :)

FCSpringer
03-25-2009, 07:57 PM
You guy's may check out the local walmarts close out specials, I got 40 cases of the 1500 6 and 5's for 8.95 a box tax included we cleaned out Blue Earth, Brookings, one other ND town and Marshal. I talked to the store managers and as long as I took all I got a great deal, 30 cases went to the club for trials. and crocket there is a wholesale outfit in the city's you can get that stuff alot cheaper too I will look up my invoice and get the info for you, those are great shells too. I have not checked out the wallmarts this year to see if they are more $, We are set for awhile.but I am guessing they are. I got strange looks as I had a hard time pushing the cart with all that ammo, people must have thought I was starting a war.

Hub
03-25-2009, 08:56 PM
Fast is fine as long as the pattern holds and the recoil is manageable. I don't care if the shot is going 1700 fps if there are giant holes in the pattern and I flinch when pulling the trigger. If what you are really after is more range and hitting power an increase in shot size is more of a help than an extra 100 fps.

TBo
03-25-2009, 09:20 PM
is that with the higher speed, the choke can be opened a bit. A mod choke is now more like the full/mod and the full/mod is more like the full. Personally I like to shoot it as the killing power seems to carry further...ie 45 yard shots if directed into the front end is almost always fatal. And not to beat on the bad shots out there, but most amateurs shoot towards the back end of crossing birds, so between the faster shot reducing lead and extra energy...it helps them as well bring more birds home.

You get past Jan1 in NE....that extra pop can kill birds that seem to have developed armor.

UGuide, not all of us are blessed to be walking around stoney point and timber lake for all our birds!!!:D:D

The scary part for me is what this new "non toxic" fad in upland game hunting will bring...I may buy a single shot to make my $2 per shell go further if that happens

benelli-banger
03-25-2009, 10:03 PM
scheel's had federal 2 3/4" 1 3/8 oz of 4,5, or 6 shot @1500 fps for $12/box earlier this winter...bot several cases...good deal, I thought.

onpoint
03-26-2009, 06:12 AM
I have to say, I use steel because of hunting public land in SoDak. When shooting steel, speed is a top priority. I was shooting Winchester Xpert #2 at 1625fps. and federal Prem 3" #2 1500fps. You can crush a bird in the air, he falls like a ball of feathers and he hits the ground and is up and running. I find no reason to have to be shooting steel on upland birds but IMO...the days of lead are numbered. There are those of our elected that are pushing for a ban on any lead shot or bullets statewide in most cases.

On the use of Tungsten type shot, I can not afford to shoot shells like Remington HD, Hevi-shot, Tungsten/Matrex, Etc. When it starts costing $3-5.00 a shell. Thats the begining of the end.

Also, mandating non toxic shot will put many a fine Pheasant guns on the wall to be never used again. too many will not shoot steel through these fine guns, including myself and again Tungsten Matrix or Hevi-shot Classic double are out of my price range.

I have a couple of fixed choke 20ga's, one being a Browning Magnum A5 20 and a Browning Citori Superlight with a english stock. I can't afford to send the O/U down to Briiley to get it choked. It's like $4-500.00 to have it done and a Invector barrel for the A5, if you can find one is running $4-600.00 bucks. My old model 12, model 50 and any 28 or 410 will be put on the chopping block for the most part. If non toxic shot become manditory.

Have any of you given the thought of what you will do if non toxic shot becomes manditory?

I'm sure some of you shoot some fine older guns with fixed chokes

crockett
03-26-2009, 09:00 AM
I agree that we should all be prepared for the day when lead is banned altogether. Personally, I don't own any fixed choked guns (except for my stainless pump marine defender for bear safety - not too worried about THAT one! lol!) so I could switch to steel any day and just adjust my shooting/dog work etc... accordingly. If need be, I would pay for expensive non-tox because I don't shoot more than 50 rounds a year (for pheasant) so I could work around the cost (not saying I'd be happy about it though!). Overall though, I have a lot of experience shooting steel for waterfowl (it was already mandatory when I started hunting, so I don't 'miss' the good old days of lead like some long-time waterfowlers), and I find it pretty deadly as long as it's fast and I take the time to pattern my chokes/loads and understand my ranges. I see already that some companies are producing "green" options - biodegradable wads, steel shot etc... One thing I might do if we had to go steel would be to upgrade to a 3" chambered gun, but dammit -I'd miss my sweet little 686 ultralight...

SOmeone made a point above about over-analyzing. GUILTY! This year I got all caught up in trying the "Churchill Instinctive Shooting System" taught by Orvis. I bought a book and DVD and I have been doing all these exercises in my basement and trying all kinds of adjustments etc... when I'm out shooting clays. My success has gone in the toilet, then slowly started to recover, then stalled... This morning I said to my buddy - "FRIG THE CHURCHILL METHOD" and just started shooting however felt right. What a great feeling to dust those clays again! lol!

-Croc

bobeyerite
03-26-2009, 02:17 PM
I think if I have to switch to steel or like shot. I think I will be one that the idiots will claim. I would just say hell with it and go fishing.---Bob

Hub
03-27-2009, 09:57 AM
I'm a little bummed out about Bismuth going out of business. I was reloading some nice pheasant loads and duck loads for $1.25 a shell and they patterned well and wouldn't rip the choke out of my nice guns. I still have a flat in the basement and since I don't shoot more than a box or two a year I'm set for a while.

onpoint
03-28-2009, 06:43 AM
I found Bismuth to be brittle. Have you ever took a BB and tried to crush it with a plyers?

It shatters like glass.

I would like to try Hevi-shot Classic double or Tungsten/Matrix myself but at $3.00 oer shell. that's a big ouch for me

FCSpringer
04-01-2009, 06:17 PM
Last season I was frustrated with some cheap shells (all that I could get around here, where hunting supply is generally abysmal). Sure, it may have been a bit of a cop-out for some poor dog work and poor shooting (which I am ALSO working on for '09!), but I still found that I crippled and lost my first two birds ever with it, so I vowed never to shoot the stuff again...

I considered ordering the good Federal stuff, but it's hard to get here in Canada, and the price is quite high. I have had good luck with the hardened "diamond shot" from Kent in their "Traditional Upland" load, which has now been discontinued. They have replaced it with a fast lead product. I got together with some other guys for a big order at a good price - so we each ended up with a mixed case (4/5/6) of Kent's new high-speed lead called Fast Lead. The loads that we got are 2 3/4 moving 1 3/8 oz of hardened shot at 1475 fps with 4 1/2 dram eq. I have not shot them yet, but I am optimistic that this will be a good product for me. Price ended up being 16$ Canadian per box, but that was a special deal through a good connection. I believe that retail is about 20$ Canadian per box. Cost is not an issue for me, not because I'm rich :D but because our pheasant densities are quite low here in Nova Scotia, so I don't go through enough shells for it to be important (compared to coffee, gas and dog food!). Anyhow, I'll report back once I pattern them and get into the season.

The reasons that I am hopeful for them (getting back to the speed question) is that I shoot MANY more waterfowl loads in a season that I do pheasant loads. The steel that I shoot is very fast, so I figure that I can imporove my success by shooting shells of similar speed for all birds. Also, like most others, most of my misses are behind, so a bit more speed will help with that. Lastly, speed helps with a bit more range (although I'm not kidding myself here into thinking that this means that I don't have to keep working with the dog and I don't expect to be taking silly long-range sky-busting shots either!).

-Croc

Ok that site is called ballisticproducts.com , I did not see those shells there now but they get stuff in all the time, and if nothing else it is a cool place for alot of suplies.

Hub
04-03-2009, 01:40 PM
Onpoint....I have not found Bismuth to be brittle, but I did hear reports when they first started producing it that they had some issues with quality (being brittle in partciular). From what I have heard the problem they had was with larger shot only that that was remedied. The only personal experience I have is with #6's and it's tough to tell the difference between it and lead. I have done a crush test with pliers and found bismuth to behave more like chilled shot than magnum shot.

UGUIDE
04-03-2009, 01:49 PM
UGuide, not all of us are blessed to be walking around stoney point and timber lake for all our birds!!!:D:D

The scary part for me is what this new "non toxic" fad in upland game hunting will bring...I may buy a single shot to make my $2 per shell go further if that happens

TBO, I agree you have select the load for the "opportunity factor". If you are going to get one shot per day and dog ain't so hot on retrieves I would be shooting a $3 shell no problem. Maybe shoot 10 gauge too:)

If going to Canada goose hunting I would definitely pack tungsten/bismuth over steel anyday.

I'm banking the lead will be in play on private land for a longtime since pheasant are not a migratory bird. Any cases of lead poisening in upland birds?

jnormanh
04-03-2009, 04:24 PM
But then its' like I said in another post on this forum. Sometimes I think we over analyze these things. When I was a kid back in the 50's and early 60's we grabbed whatever shells were available and went hunting. Never gave it much thought and we still killed birds. And shells back then were about $3 a box. Considering inflation $15 a box today probably isn't too bad. :)[/QUOTE]

That's the right answer. There isn't a shell on the market, advertised for shooting pheasants, that won't kill them dead, and today's shells are miles better than the old fiber-wad shells of the past - which killed birds just fine.

If you feel better shooting 2 oz, or 1500 FPS, okay, but I'll take the experienced shooter with cheapo shells.

Possibly the greatest shotgunner alive today, maybe even ever, is a man named George Digweed.

http://www.georgedigweed.com/aboutgeorge

He says that the worst shells available are better than the best shooter ever to live.