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  #11  
Old 07-17-2011, 11:41 AM
jetjockey jetjockey is offline
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No I didn't. You just don't need a "whoa" post to teach whoa. If the dog is comming back to you when you "whoa" it, then there is a disconnect somewhere in the training. Tons of trainers teach "whoa" without a whoa post. You don't even need a half hitch, but if your going to use the collar around the dogs flank, its a great transition to the stimulation of the collar. Teaching "whoa" is not brain surgery, and there are many ways to do it that all work equally well. The main thing is that "whoa" is an obedience command, and needs to seperate from bird work. All it means is stop, and don't move. If the dog is standing a bird, then it means don't move.

Chuckles

A very easy way to teach whoa is after the dog learns to walk at heel. During a walk with the dog at heel, say the "whoa" command and stop. Give a quick tug on the check cord to get the dog to stop. Then tap it on its head to release it and continue the walk. Do this until the dog learns to stop with you on the "whoa" command. Once the dog understands that "whoa" means stop, you can continue walking a few steps after giving the "whoa" command. If the dog doesn't stop (which it probably won't at first because your still walking a few steps further) pick the dog up and set it back to where the original "whoa" command was given. This is a great time to style the dog up as well by tapping under its head to get the head up, and also stroking the underside of the tail. Give the dog the "whoa" command when you reset the dog, but don't overuse it. It won't take very long before the dog realizes it needs to stop, while you keep walking. After a couple sessions you should be able to walk with the dog, give the command, and it will stop while you are able to walk around without it moving. Once the dog has learned that, you can allow the dog to lead you while not walking at heel. Give the command, and give a tug on the cord. The dog will learn to stop weather its by your side, or out in front. Once the dog has perfected whoa on the check cord, add the collar. But start back with the dog walking at heel. Give the comand, stimulate the dog, and when the dog stops, release the stimulation. The dog will quickly learn to turn the stimulation off by obeying the given command. Then work your way back up until the dog will whoa without the stimulation, and only stimulate the dog when it doesn't obey the command. Once the dog is 100%, take the check cord off and start all over again with just the e-collar. It doesn't take very much time if done right, and your dog will learn to stop whenever it hears the whoa command, no matter how far away it is. Just make sure it always wear's the collar, you never want to give a command you can't reinforce with either the check cord, or the e-collar.
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  #12  
Old 07-18-2011, 09:30 AM
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I taught my dog to whoa on our morning leash walks and on weekends using a check cord with a spike collar. I taught whoa and hand signals with the check cord simultaneously. When the dog was near the end of the cord, I commanded "whoa," paused, and then turned him left or right with the cord while using the hand signal as I walked in that direction.
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2011, 06:07 PM
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yes you should use a whoa post- if you want your dog to learn to whoa- "freeze on comand and not move till released"

whoa on comand is a comand that is something taught- the dog is taught to not wiggle- not wiggle untill released- it is something to actually see- it is something very few bird dogs have down pat in the bird field
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  #14  
Old 07-19-2011, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BritChaser View Post
I taught my dog to whoa on our morning leash walks and on weekends using a check cord with a spike collar. I taught whoa and hand signals with the check cord simultaneously. When the dog was near the end of the cord, I commanded "whoa," paused, and then turned him left or right with the cord while using the hand signal as I walked in that direction.
This is basically how i taught whoa and it worked very well. However, instead of a spike collar i used the "Wonder Lead" made famous by Delmar Smith. It's basically a stiff rope (think lariat) with a slip ring that cinches down. Once you have the command down you overlay with the e-collar using with both the wonder lead and collar simultaneously, eventually weaning off the lead altogether.

It's a very effective tool for teaching not only Whoa, but healing as well.
Here's what it looks like: http://www.gundogsupply.com/wonleadbydel.html

Last edited by birdshooter; 07-19-2011 at 07:10 PM.
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  #15  
Old 07-20-2011, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdshooter View Post
This is basically how i taught whoa and it worked very well. However, instead of a spike collar i used the "Wonder Lead" made famous by Delmar Smith. It's basically a stiff rope (think lariat) with a slip ring that cinches down. Once you have the command down you overlay with the e-collar using with both the wonder lead and collar simultaneously, eventually weaning off the lead altogether.

It's a very effective tool for teaching not only Whoa, but healing as well.
Here's what it looks like: http://www.gundogsupply.com/wonleadbydel.html
Good post. Thanks for the info.
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  #16  
Old 07-20-2011, 02:01 PM
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I have already gotten him to a point where he knows what woah means, using the methods I describe. My problem is that when I woah him from a long distance he isn't getting it and when I stim him (I use the e-collar almost every time he is off leash and he understands it) he is visibly scared - I think because he is usually being corrected and somehow he doesn't get that moving is "Wrong" he knows I want him to stand still with a Woah command but he basically cowers when I stim him after he disobeys Woah. I don't know if I should step back to a woah post or if that wouldn't work either because he knows woah at close distance.

I think my plan will be to woah at close distance and vibrate from the moment I say Woah to the moment he stops (if it is 1/2 or 1 second) and then I can expand that to longer distance and more distraction Woahs.

Thanks for the help guys - as always
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  #17  
Old 07-20-2011, 06:41 PM
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counting on the ecollar on whoa- such as back the other dog is a very touchy thing- most with good solid pointing dogs don't use WHOA except at close range- and that is very seldom- just to freeze an unsure dog-

yes- I have a Britt that will freeze at Whoa- from a full blown run- I have used it maybe twice a season

I've hunted 3-4 Britt's together for some 20 years- I can count on one hand when I've used the comand WHOA while hunting a season

what exactly is the use of whoa- to steady an unsure pointing dog-

most good pointing dogs don't move or twitch when they have locked on a bird- whoa isn't necessary

Last edited by Shadow; 07-20-2011 at 06:45 PM.
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  #18  
Old 07-20-2011, 10:50 PM
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I mainly want it to help him be steady to wing as well as honor a point, not so much to make his point more rigid
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  #19  
Old 07-22-2011, 08:31 PM
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Lots of good responses and suggestions. One thing you may want to consider is how you initially taught whoa. In your first post you described treating your dog after you released him. Essentially you were rewarding the dog for releasing, and you may now see confusion on the dog's part being played out in his aversive reaction to e collar correction after he moved. Before, the dog was being rewarded for being released, now he is being shocked when he self releases. Any treats and/or praise should have come while the dog was standing still, that is while the dog was giving the desired behavior. This whole issue could just be a matter of timing and could be corrected by revisiting basic yard work with proper and consistent timing of praise.
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  #20  
Old 07-26-2011, 06:24 AM
Shadow Shadow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lula's boss View Post
Lots of good responses and suggestions. One thing you may want to consider is how you initially taught whoa. In your first post you described treating your dog after you released him. Essentially you were rewarding the dog for releasing, and you may now see confusion on the dog's part being played out in his aversive reaction to e collar correction after he moved. Before, the dog was being rewarded for being released, now he is being shocked when he self releases. Any treats and/or praise should have come while the dog was standing still, that is while the dog was giving the desired behavior. This whole issue could just be a matter of timing and could be corrected by revisiting basic yard work with proper and consistent timing of praise.
that's a good statement

another way is to run a soft honoring dog with a real sure fire pointer and backer- together alot- and help both to understand what it's all about and why- you don't necessarily need birds- don't think you really need the ecollar-
if the soft backer is young and hasn't been busting in on points another dog has it works

I hunted quite a bit with a guy who used the ecollar for to many reasons- soon as the dog realized he wasn't in sight that dog would steal points or bust in and flush- never a problem as long as I stayed far away- he never did quite figure that out
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