Another Newbie from MI

[RPSM]

My name is Cathy and I have joined this group in hopes of not only learning more about bird hunting but to see what I can learn about why some dogs may or may not be good hunters.
I am the president of an all-breed dog rescue and we encounter many bird dogs. Before I am boo'd off, please know that my interest is not to judge anyone but to get a better understanding of why some of the bird dogs we acquire as rescues, are sometimes harder to train than other breeds. ( our rescue has a 10 week training program that when the dogs complete the program they are considered a Canine Good Citizen) I am hoping to learn why avid hunters may or may not consider a dog from a shelter, rescue, or other means besides a breeder. We have a Munsterlander that needs a home, his drive to hunt is very strong, and we actually sent him out on a 2 week hunting trip. By the reports he did very well. So I started researching what hunters are looking for in their dogs. There is so much information on the internet; I am not sure what is good or bad. So here I am.

[UplandHntr]

welcome aboard Cathy, I seriously doubt you'll be boo'd off of this site.

what's the name of your rescue group?

[RPSM]

Hey thanks. We are called Refurbished Pets of Southern Michigan. Funny name huh?
I have found many of the topics/discussions on here very interesting.

[SDJIM]

Welcome to forum

[RPSM]

Thank you.
Can you guys tell me what FF or force fetch means? I am seeing it in alot of the posts I am reading on here. I am unsure what that means? I am thinking that it means you force the dog to fetch but there are diffrent ways of doing it? I seen some posts as simple as walking away from the dog then I seen some where I am assuming negative or harmfull enforcment is used? Hope I am wrong on that last one. I am just courious if this is considered a good or bad way of teaching the dog to fetch?
BTW, Yes, I really am a rookie. Ha.

[BritChaser]

Cathy, welcome to the site. Thank you for aiding rescue dogs. I have a Brittany out of NBRAN. He is a terrific upland hunter as was my former Brittany who I got as as an AKC registered pup. I was lucky in being able to take three Brittanies in NBRAN rescue, one in Kentucky and two in Ohio, afield for a brief test of hunting instinct and also to fire a shotgun to test for gun shyness. I was very lucky with the third dog I looked at, the one I adopted, because his foster master was a Brittany field trialist who raised chukar partridges and had a license to shoot them year round for training and trials. Consequently, my dog got a chance to show me his stuff on three partridges. I would say that if you hope to get bird hunters to take your rescues, you will do much better it you offer a field trial of some sort. Quail, chukar, and pheasant are pen raised all over the country. I imagine there is a bird rancher in your area or a bird hunting reserve. You could work out a deal where you would bring potential bird dog adopters out to the bird ranch or reserve where the adopter could buy a few birds or a half day hunt to test the dog.

I wish yo the best of luck.

[BritChaser]

Originally Posted by RPSM

Thank you.
Can you guys tell me what FF or force fetch means? I am seeing it in alot of the posts I am reading on here. I am unsure what that means? I am thinking that it means you force the dog to fetch but there are diffrent ways of doing it? I seen some posts as simple as walking away from the dog then I seen some where I am assuming negative or harmfull enforcment is used? Hope I am wrong on that last one. I am just courious if this is considered a good or bad way of teaching the dog to fetch?
BTW, Yes, I really am a rookie. Ha.

Years ago I bought a dog training book that described how to use force fetch training. I don't remember the details because my dogs retreive but it does involve negative stimulation. One thing about bird hunters and their dogs, they vary considerably in the degree of attachment (if any) and treatment. They run the gamut from treating dogs humanely but merely as hunting tools to people like me who let them live in the house, interact with them, and have strong emotional attachments. Bird hunters of every stripe also put shock collars on their dogs while hunting and training, myself included. These collars have adjustable levels of shock and most have a non-shocking stimulator such as vibration or a tone which is all that is needed after the training period. Shock collars are ideal for training bird dogs who are always functioning at a considerable distance from the master. Shocking is only needed in the beginning of training to discourage bad behavior and usually just using the "nick" mode is sufficient. In the field, a shock collar is necessary for a dog who chases deer, as many bird dogs will, because if you can't stop your dog who has taken off after a deer out here in the open country of the Great Plains, you may never see your dog again and it may die of starvation, predation, or exposure.

[RPSM]

Originally Posted by BritChaser

Cathy, welcome to the site. Thank you for aiding rescue dogs. I have a Brittany out of NBRAN. He is a terrific upland hunter as was my former Brittany who I got as as an AKC registered pup. I was lucky in being able to take three Brittanies in NBRAN rescue, one in Kentucky and two in Ohio, afield for a brief test of hunting instinct and also to fire a shotgun to test for gun shyness. I was very lucky with the third dog I looked at, the one I adopted, because his foster master was a Brittany field trialist who raised chukar partridges and had a license to shoot them year round for training and trials. Consequently, my dog got a chance to show me his stuff on three partridges. I would say that if you hope to get bird hunters to take your rescues, you will do much better it you offer a field trial of some sort. Quail, chukar, and pheasant are pen raised all over the country. I imagine there is a bird rancher in your area or a bird hunting reserve. You could work out a deal where you would bring potential bird dog adopters out to the bird ranch or reserve where the adopter could buy a few birds or a half day hunt to test the dog.

I wish yo the best of luck.

I absolutely love that idea! The Munsterlander we sent out on hunt, here is what they said:
I worked with Einstein for approx. 3 weeks. He was exercised every morning for about 30-45 minutes. I also hunted him on pheasants 6 or 7 times. These are some of my observations:
He loves to run and hunt. He needs allot of exercise.
He is well mannered around other dogs.
Follows basis commands- come, sit, down, stay, etc.
Handles well and responds to a whistle.
He does not seem to have been hunt much, has trouble telling the difference between sparrows & game birds.
Will honor another dog on point.
He has pointed his own pheasant.
He is not gun shy.

Does that sound like a dog an avid hunter would be interested in? He is currently in our training program and set to earn a CGC. But honestly, he seems so happy outside and working. We encounter so many hunting breeds and I am thinking it will be very helpful for me to learn what to look for when taking them in to the rescue.
Again thank you for the idea. I love it and will research around here, where potential adopters/hunters can take them to test the hunting dogs.

[RPSM]

Originally Posted by BritChaser

Years ago I bought a dog training book that described how to use force fetch training. I don't remember the details because my dogs retreive but it does involve negative stimulation. One thing about bird hunters and their dogs, they vary considerably in the degree of attachment (if any) and treatment. They run the gamut from treating dogs humanely but merely as hunting tools to people like me who let them live in the house, interact with them, and have strong emotional attachments. Bird hunters of every stripe also put shock collars on their dogs while hunting and training, myself included. These collars have adjustable levels of shock and most have a non-shocking stimulator such as vibration or a tone which is all that is needed after the training period. Shock collars are ideal for training bird dogs who are always functioning at a considerable distance from the master. Shocking is only needed in the beginning of training to discourage bad behavior and usually just using the "nick" mode is sufficient. In the field, a shock collar is necessary for a dog who chases deer, as many bird dogs will, because if you can't stop your dog who has taken off after a deer out here in the open country of the Great Plains, you may never see your dog again and it may die of starvation, predation, or exposure.

Again thank you. You guys are all so nice. Who knew? LOL
I am familiar with the shock collars as I use them on my own dogs when walking through the deep woods. The collars have stopped my dogs many a time from chasing a deer and then never to be seen again. The dogs love it when I get the collars out. They know we are going for a walk in the woods. I have a Tri-Tronics 70 G2.

I think I phrased my question wrong. I am sorry. I am very green to bird hunting so please forgive me if I ask what many seem like stupid questions. I probably should have asked: how would I go about telling the difference if a dog is FF or retreiving? And I am still unclear if FF is considered a bad trait to most hunters or not?

[Matt D]

Welcome to the site. I can not answer your FF question as i have not used it or have never really researched it. Lots of good guys on here though that will try to help.

If you are serious about learning more about hunting dogs it might be in your best interest to go out and try upland hunting with a guide at a preserve. Southern MI has some and it would give you a first hand look into it. And you might just like it and adopt yourself one of those bird dogs.

Matt D