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  #1  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:38 AM
Little Brit Little Brit is offline
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Default Trail lines vs hunting lines

Looking at different breeders around the US for a hunting dog. Question brought to my attention was that a field trail dog will run to big for what I need. I only hunt smaller areas and someone told me that a trail dog will be no good. My question is if the pup is trained from early on to hunt close would it be a natural instict carried down from trailing blood lines to range too far. Does that make sense. I would like to trail the dog here in Ontario, Canada in the off season just to get out for exercise but we do not have many if any horse back trails in the area. Any feed back for you guy gals.

Would anyone know of any breeders with foot hunting dogs ( Britts or even GSP)
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:28 PM
jetjockey jetjockey is offline
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I wouldn't trust the information that was given to you at all. IMO, it sounds like the person who gave you that info has very little experience with trial dogs, and is just spreading the myth, that many people who don't know much about HB dogs, have a tendency to spread.

I happen to own a Horseback Brittany that runs All Age trials throughout the US with a Pro trainer. She finished in the top 10 of the All Age dogs in the country last year on the Brittany circuit at only 3 1/2 years old. She is currently in the top 10 again and she still doesn't turn 4 until June. She competes at the top level against the best brittanys in the country. She is a big running dog off horseback, but she is a very nice foot hunting dog when I have my shotgun in my hand. Trial dogs are typically the best of the best when it comes to range, nose, bidability, and such. Those same atributes are exactly what you want in a hunting dog. With regard to range, you can always bring a dog in, but it is much, much tougher to push a dog out. My brittany easily makes 500+ yard casts when running off horse, but she is typically a 50-200 yard dog when hunting off foot. She will run closer when the cover is thick, and range farther in the praries of South Dakota. There is no guarantees of anything when chosing a dog. No matter what anyone says, its a crapshoot. The only way to improve your chances of getting a great dog, is to try and get a dog from lines that have proven themselves in either competition, or hunt tests. The next best thing would be to get a pup from hunting dogs that you have hunted over and can verify their ability. If I were in your shoes, I would look for a dog from the best trial lines you can find, and afford. Titled trial dogs have proven they have the physical ability, the mental ability, the nose, and the training ability to compete against other dogs and win. I would ask the person who told you that trial dogs aren't any good for what your looking for how much experience he has with trial dogs. When we got our dog, I asked the trainer I now use if he could hunt over his All Age trial dogs. My first priority was having a great hunting dog, if she turned out to be a trial dog, then even better. His response was, "every single one of them"!
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:17 PM
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carptom1 carptom1 is offline
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Jet Jockey you make a great point. Nobody should ever talk about dog breeds or styles in absolutes. What one person likes or wants in a dog might not work for someone else. To simply state that trial dogs don't make good hunters is ignorant at best. Sounds like somebody had a bad experience with an ameteur handler while hunting. I grew up hunting with pointing breeds and a father that was a meat hunter. He was probably one of those guys. He would never have understood guys paying money to have their dog trained, or run in trials. I have had the opportunity to hunt behind many trial dogs over the years, my neighbor is a big trial guy with English pointers, and many of them are awesome to hunt behind. I have also hunted behind a few that were hard to control, and the guys were more interested in their pedigree and potential than their actual preformance. My dad would roll over in his grave if he Knew what I paid for my pup. Hell he would if he knew I started hunting labs a few years ago. Like Jet said get the best dog you can afford regardless of whether it is a trial dog or not. Spend less on the new gun, you will kill more birds.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:57 PM
Shadow Shadow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetjockey View Post
I wouldn't trust the information that was given to you at all. IMO, it sounds like the person who gave you that info has very little experience with trial dogs, and is just spreading the myth, that many people who don't know much about HB dogs, have a tendency to spread.

I happen to own a Horseback Brittany that runs All Age trials throughout the US with a Pro trainer. She finished in the top 10 of the All Age dogs in the country last year on the Brittany circuit at only 3 1/2 years old. She is currently in the top 10 again and she still doesn't turn 4 until June. She competes at the top level against the best brittanys in the country. She is a big running dog off horseback, but she is a very nice foot hunting dog when I have my shotgun in my hand. Trial dogs are typically the best of the best when it comes to range, nose, bidability, and such. Those same atributes are exactly what you want in a hunting dog. With regard to range, you can always bring a dog in, but it is much, much tougher to push a dog out. My brittany easily makes 500+ yard casts when running off horse, but she is typically a 50-200 yard dog when hunting off foot. She will run closer when the cover is thick, and range farther in the praries of South Dakota. There is no guarantees of anything when chosing a dog. No matter what anyone says, its a crapshoot. The only way to improve your chances of getting a great dog, is to try and get a dog from lines that have proven themselves in either competition, or hunt tests. The next best thing would be to get a pup from hunting dogs that you have hunted over and can verify their ability. If I were in your shoes, I would look for a dog from the best trial lines you can find, and afford. Titled trial dogs have proven they have the physical ability, the mental ability, the nose, and the training ability to compete against other dogs and win. I would ask the person who told you that trial dogs aren't any good for what your looking for how much experience he has with trial dogs. When we got our dog, I asked the trainer I now use if he could hunt over his All Age trial dogs. My first priority was having a great hunting dog, if she turned out to be a trial dog, then even better. His response was, "every single one of them"!
awesome post- tip my cap to you
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:46 PM
Little Brit Little Brit is offline
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Thanks for the info guys. Im still looking for the right dog. So many breeders in the US its hard to pick a kennel. I know Brittanys, thats all I ever had and love the breed but I am also gonna look into GSP. Timeing is also important. I am moving in a month and I don't want to bring the pup to my current house so I will need to wait a few months which will bring me into June. By the time the season start pup will be young, so I'm looking at the following season to hunt the dog. But this will give a good training time line and the area I'm moving to has alot of fields and ponds for training and birds within 5min drive. I'm pumped on moving and getting a second dog but the wife not so much.

Does anyone know of pups on the ground now around MI, OH or PA. Britts or GSP
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:44 PM
MJinMN MJinMN is offline
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I was looking at Brittanys a while back and spent some time talking with the guy who runs Covey Rise Kennel in Iowa. He tries to breed brittanys for the foot hunter.... Sounds like exactly what you are looking for.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Brit View Post
Thanks for the info guys. Im still looking for the right dog. So many breeders in the US its hard to pick a kennel. I know Brittanys, thats all I ever had and love the breed but I am also gonna look into GSP. Timeing is also important. I am moving in a month and I don't want to bring the pup to my current house so I will need to wait a few months which will bring me into June. By the time the season start pup will be young, so I'm looking at the following season to hunt the dog. But this will give a good training time line and the area I'm moving to has alot of fields and ponds for training and birds within 5min drive. I'm pumped on moving and getting a second dog but the wife not so much.

Does anyone know of pups on the ground now around MI, OH or PA. Britts or GSP
You know Brittany's- but now you want to try something different-
you should just put down 2 deposits on a female and male GSP- you have a better chance that way- doesn't matter who or where- you want the challenge- better than a Britt
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:39 PM
Natty Bumpo Natty Bumpo is offline
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Jet Jockey has it right. Most of the people who "bad mouth" trials dont know Jack.

Behind every decent gun dog I've ever seen are dogs who have been proven in competition of some sort. Those are the ones worth breeding too.

There are all kinds of litters of good pups on the ground right now. Make your pick and GO HUNTING!

NB
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:08 PM
jetjockey jetjockey is offline
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I have to say, I don't understand when people say they breed dogs for the "foot" hunter. Usually when I see this it usually just means there are very few trial dogs in the pedigree. Everyone has a different idea what a good "foot" hunting dog should be. Some people want a 30 yard boot licker and some think that a 300-400 yard dog is comfortable foot hunting range. You breed dogs for a lot more then just range. Most importantly you breed for nose, desire, bidability, stamina, etc. Range is very important, but only one piece of the pie. Grant it, trial dog breeding "should" hopefully produce dogs with a lot more range, but range is one of the things you can adjust during training. At least as far as bringing a dog in. You really can't teach a dog to run big, have the desire,, and bidibility. Those are things that are genetic. When people say the breed for "foot hunting" dogs, it says more about the pedigree then it does the dogs they produce. In other words, it usually means the pedigree doesnt have dogs with much in the line of a record for proving themselves in competition.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:54 PM
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Cobblestone Cobblestone is offline
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All of my dogs are out of trial lines. I don't trial at all. Trial lines are tried, tested and true! They hunt the cover you get them into. Wide open on the prairies and close in the woods. They're smart like that.
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