Prairie Storm

[jsdriggs]

Has anyone done any patterning with this new ammo? I just ordered a couple boxes of 20GA- #6 to check it out. I'll share what I learn.

Granted, all of our gun's pattern individually.

[Nimrod]

Patterning isn't going to tell you if the "ribbed" pellets arrive at the same time as the round ones (and I strongly suspect they don't). I consider the concept to be just the latest marketing gimmick to make people think they can compensate for lack of practice by buying these whiz-bang shells.

[quail hound]

Do they have the 20ga in 2 3/4s or just 3in? I don't like shooting 3in, it reminds me of my 12ga.:(

[jsdriggs]

3" as far as I could tell. Interesting enough, one of the best patterning loads I've ever found for my Weatherby Orion is a 3" Winchester Supreme. 265 pellets in a 30" circle. Not as good as 2 3/4" Federal Game Shok 6's, but pretty darn close.

I don't really care if the ribbed pellets get there at the same time. A shot string is a shot string. I'll pattern them when they arrive and post the results.

[Nimrod]

I don't really care if the ribbed pellets get there at the same time. A shot string is a shot string. I'll pattern them when they arrive and post the results.

Well, the only pellets that matter are the ones that intercept the bird, short shot strings are what make one shell superior to another.

[Gove County Britts]

very true it dosn't matter what size guage or anything else as long as it intercepts the bird at the right time

[onpoint]

I'm with you Nimrod. Just like mixing Hevi shot and Steel shot. There's no doubt that the steel looses speed faster then the Hevi Shot. A person has to wonder how long of shot string a person gets with this load also.

The Flite Stopper shot has to fly all over the place with that ridge on the pellets. Gimmick!

I shot a few boxes of Black Cloud at ducks last year. I noticed no advantage what so ever. In fact, I think the Winchester Xpert HV out shot it and is much cheaper.

[jsdriggs]

A short shot string is good if you are right on or just in front of the bird on your point of aim. A long shot string is good if you are out in front of a bird just a bit too far. I think you guys are talking semantics. As long as my shell patterns well for MY gun, I don't care how long the shot string is. DOG PUTS UP BIRD, HUNTER SHOOTS, BIRD FALLS AND IS RETRIEVED. Who gives a damn if it has ONE, or twenty pellets in it? Maybe the ribbed pellet is the GOLDEN BB!

And I'm shooting pheasants mostly------------- not quail and the like. Patterning is very important to me.

Oh yeah onpoint, there is NO steel in this load. Lead only.

[onpoint]

I know there's no steel in that load but it still has the same shaped flite stopper shot. Lead or Steel. They won't fly straight and true. They can't..there not round.

[jsdriggs]

Well like I said I'll pattern this @ 30 yards and share the results. Federal ammunition has always been high quality for me, be it shotgun ammo, or Premium rifle ammo. Anything they come up with deserves a look see on my part.

For duck ammo I shoot no gimmicky stuff either, Winchester Supreme #3 shot. A little more expensive than the HV, but it knocks the snot out of ducks. Passing shots or decoy spreads.

[onpoint]

Well like I said I'll pattern this @ 30 yards and share the results. Federal ammunition has always been high quality for me, be it shotgun ammo, or Premium rifle ammo. Anything they come up with deserves a look see on my part.

For duck ammo I shoot no gimmicky stuff either, Winchester Supreme #3 shot. A little more expensive than the HV, but it knocks the snot out of ducks. Passing shots or decoy spreads.

By all means, check it out. I hunt a lot of ducks and Pheasants on public land in South Dakota. We must use non toxic shot. I'm trying the Remington Hyper Sonic loads this year. With steel, speed kills. I patterned them and with a Mod Carlson extended choke in my camo Cynergy. I was using the 11/8oz 3" #2's. I had 33 hits in a 12" X 12" target at 30 yards. I think that will kill ducks. I will find out.

[Nimrod]

A short shot string is good if you are right on or just in front of the bird on your point of aim. A long shot string is good if you are out in front of a bird just a bit too far.

Author Bob Brister completely debunks this theory in his book "Shotgunning, The Art & Science". He did this by shooting at paper targets pulled behind a car traveling at known speeds.

The philosophy that you can compensate for not putting the gun in the right place by throwing more pellets (i.e. 3 in. magnums) or having a longer shot-string just doesn't make sense when you think about it.

Hitting moving targets isn't about luck it's simply a matter of putting the gun in the right place. If you do that, the birds will fall; if you don't, well....

[dvmweb]

I would really like to hear from SOMEONE who has used these shells. OK?

[uplandgameadventures]

I would really like to hear from SOMEONE who has used these shells. OK?

Trying to get this to the top again and also find out what the report is on this stuff.

I picked up a box of 5's Friday night with hopes to try it but no time this weekend...will just have to test it out on the bird and cross my fingers. Maybe save them for late season if anything but still want to give a few shots.

Hopefully I won't have to use 5's early season.

http://www.federalpremium.com/sweepstakes/default.aspx visit here to win a case of Prairie Storm. Good luck! (if you win, I like Rooster Lager ;))

[Uncle Buck]

Certainly more than one of you used them on ducks last year. Please report. The concept is the same. My ducks are droppin rather well this year (when I hit them at all) with some of the faster steel. I've only used 4# so far and stoned a big drake mallard that was up there a ways. Actually I shot terrible the first outing and very well yesterday--5 ducks with the last 4 shots. I have a box of Black Cloud in #bb for some late season Mallards and will report. If I have a bad day do I blame it on the shells?

[Uncle Buck]

Obviously a short but wide, fast shot string would be the ultimate. We'd all be blessed.

[Shadow]

Well, the only pellets that matter are the ones that intercept the bird, short shot strings are what make one shell superior to another.

all you can think about is shot string- it doesn't have a thing to do with killing- you compared shot string of a shotgun with a water hose- correct

[birdshooter]

If the Prairie Storm loads perform anywhere near as good as their sister load the Blackcloud steel, then you'll have a winner for a leathal pheasant load. I've used the Blackcloud 1oz #3 load for hunting Phez on WPA's and birds go down when hit like a sack of rocks.

To be honest though, I also get great results from Kent's Fast lead w/Diamond shot. It's at least $4 cheaper per box and kills birds as dead as they'll ever be. Nothing like that 1-3/8 oz load of #4's for smacking late season roosters.

[siouxcitysmitty]

I hunted with 6 shot prairie storm this weekend (but haven't patterned it).

I've decide I don't like it. Definately drops them cold, but i had too many that were turned into a bloody mess on shots no clsoer than average distance with an IC choke.

That black cloud carnage on geese doesn't bother me much, but, i don't care for it on my pheasants

[dvmweb]

:10sign: Thank you. Very good info.

I hunted with 6 shot prairie storm this weekend (but haven't patterned it).

I've decide I don't like it. Definately drops them cold, but i had too many that were turned into a bloody mess on shots no clsoer than average distance with an IC choke.

That black cloud carnage on geese doesn't bother me much, but, i don't care for it on my pheasants

[jsdriggs]

I hunted with 6 shot prairie storm this weekend (but haven't patterned it).

I've decide I don't like it. Definately drops them cold, but i had too many that were turned into a bloody mess on shots no clsoer than average distance with an IC choke.

That black cloud carnage on geese doesn't bother me much, but, i don't care for it on my pheasants
Interesting siouxcitysmitty. Makes sense though. Have you considered a skeet tube for your first shot? I shoot skeet for my under barrel, and IC second. New loads pattern so tightly, I'm not sure you have to get any tighter than IM at any time during pheasant season. Heck, I only use a Carlson IM tube in my Benelli 12GA for ducks and geese.

Well, I got my two boxes of Prairie Storm 20GA 3" 6's yesterday from UPS. Will pattern them next Tuesday hopefully, and share results. I'm going to pattern some Fiocchi nickel plated as well.

[jeffstally]

I got some Prairie Storm 3" #6 shot factory 2nds for $7.60 per box. We'll just have to see if I can actually hit anything with them.

[jsdriggs]

I got some Prairie Storm 3" #6 shot factory 2nds for $7.60 per box. We'll just have to see if I can actually hit anything with them.
Yeah, no kidding jeff. No matter how well the shells pattern, sometimes I just can't hit anything somedays!:cheers:

[Michigan Gunner]

I shot a number of patterns with 12 ga. No. 6 2 3/4 inch Prairie Storm last week. I used Imp. Cyl. in a SBE shot at 30 yards. The patterns looked like I used a full choke, very tight. The spread was 16 inches with lots of center density.
It would really hammer anything you hit with it. It's probably due to their flitecontrol wad. It has a solid cup, no slits.

For eary season, for me, it's way too tight a pattern. It also smacks you pretty hard as it is a hot load. It might be useful later in the season and may be just the ticket if you need a tighter pattern from a Cyl or Imp.Cyl. gun.
I won't be using it for eary season, I'll stick with Golden Pheaseant No. 6.

I haven't tried it with full choke but I'll bet it's really really tight. It might make a great turkey load.

Lock and Load! :D

[dvmweb]

I use an over and under. Might be ok to use in the second barrel for distant shots. I'll wait awhile.
Thanks you guys.

[jsdriggs]

:DI shot a number of patterns with 12 ga. No. 6 2 3/4 inch Prairie Storm last week. I used Imp. Cyl. in a SBE shot at 30 yards. The patterns looked like I used a full choke, very tight. The spread was 16 inches with lots of center density.
It would really hammer anything you hit with it. It's probably due to their flitecontrol wad. It has a solid cup, no slits.

For eary season, for me, it's way too tight a pattern. It also smacks you pretty hard as it is a hot load. It might be useful later in the season and may be just the ticket if you need a tighter pattern from a Cyl or Imp.Cyl. gun.
I won't be using it for eary season, I'll stick with Golden Pheaseant No. 6.

I haven't tried it with full choke but I'll bet it's really really tight. It might make a great turkey load.

Lock and Load! :D
Good insight michigan hunter. I'm going to pattern it in my 20 on Tuesday. Like you guys say, might be a great late season load or a good second shot. I take a lot of second shots! They seem to work well!

Might be good for two and three year old birds as they never seem to hold tight, no matter what time of year.

I leave for NE Mt in ten days for a six day hunt. Yeaaa!

[jsdriggs]

Well, I got out and pattered the 3" 1 1/4 oz 20GA 6's last night. Michigan Hunter was right on, they kicked hard. 25yards- 30" circle, skeet tube. Something like 250 pellets in the pattern, and mostly concentrated in the middle. Didn't notice too many flyers, ie... flitestopper pellets. But those pellets did rip the living hell out of the paper. You could totally tell which holes were them.

Too much for a first shot, but I am going to put them in for the second barrel. I prefer a tight pattern as I'd rather kill em' dead or flat out miss so we're not chasing wounded roosters on the ground.

All in all- one hell of a good load.

[uplandgameadventures]

Thanks for the reports guys. I didn't have a chance to pattern mine before opener but saved them for the second shot. I missed twice this past weekend with my second shot (Prairie Storm #5 2 3/4). I didn't notice any difference in kick between this and the Federal's Pheasant Forever 1500 fps.

Neil
www.uplandgameadventures.com

[Michigan Gunner]

I'm not a big fan of the newer hot loads going 1450 fps and faster for most hunting. At least for early in the year, a load going of at least 1150 with hard shot works fine and doesn't pound you.

Three years ago, I hunted with a friend that was having some shoulder problems. So, he was shooting a 20 ga. with a Mod choke and a 2 3/4 inch load of 7/8 oz of No. 6. Really just a light rabbit load. In the early season, he had no problem killing roosters at 25 to 30 yards. There's no fear in the center of the pattern!

Lock and Load! :D

[Nimrod]

Iâ??m with Michigan, the more I shoot the more Iâ??ve come to realize that â??recoil is the enemy of good shootingâ?. I guess I just donâ??t understand what problem these shells are supposed to address. If you put the gun in the right place, the load described by M.G. will kill them stone dead as far away as itâ??s ethical to take the shot; if you donâ??t put the gun in the right place, no shell is going to make any difference (no matter how good the marketing is.)

The hardest pheasant to kill is the straight-away bird at a distance but itâ??s not because the shot doesnâ??t tear enough meat up, itâ??s due to lack of penetration. I canâ??t see these flite-stopper pellets penetrating as well as a hard round pellet.

[GSP]

Iâ??m with Michigan, the more I shoot the more Iâ??ve come to realize that â??recoil is the enemy of good shootingâ?. I guess I just donâ??t understand what problem these shells are supposed to address. If you put the gun in the right place, the load described by M.G. will kill them stone dead as far away as itâ??s ethical to take the shot; if you donâ??t put the gun in the right place, no shell is going to make any difference (no matter how good the marketing is.)

The hardest pheasant to kill is the straight-away bird at a distance but itâ??s not because the shot doesnâ??t tear enough meat up, itâ??s due to lack of penetration. I canâ??t see these flite-stopper pellets penetrating as well as a hard round pellet.

Amen!

Oh, and the problem they're supposed to address... Seperating sportsman from their $.

[hazzard]

I used the #5 2 3/4 12guage. I think they have more killing power then the standard federal premium. All the birds that were shot with the storms were dead when the dog brought them back and the birds shot with the premium were 50/50. There was also different people shooting the birds and that could have been a factor. As far as cost I got a case from Reeds sporting goods for 159.99. To me 16 a box is not that bad you pay 14-18 for the premium federals.

[Bird Buster]

I think an issue with Prairie Storm will surely be too dense of a pattern at routine yardages tearing up birds unfortunately. Sounds like some have already experienced this happening. Black Cloud is great as geese routinely provide long shots, using the same technology for a pheasant load sort of ignores the typical 20-30 yard shots most people take. Guess the season will tell how well this load is taken.

[jsdriggs]

All valid points by you all. But really, I'm just in this for the fun. And it's fun trying new things, patterning new shells, and just general fidgeting in our passions. Cost doesn't bother me much either, as it is insignificant to me in comparison to other good hunting loads.
Now for more stats on that pattern yesterday. 246 hits. I cut open a shell today and counted the pellets. 256 in the shell I cut open. That's 96% of the pellets on paper! I find that amazing. I think I'll pattern them at 40 yards just to see what happens then.
Those pellets with the ribs are not that different. Compared to some old bismuth loads I've cut open, they are much rounder. Idisagree with the assertion they wont penetrate feathers as good either. I feel these are going to kick some serious butt for second shots on longer range birds!

[hazzard]

Great post!!! I don't understand why people discredit a product before they use it. One other thing federal donates money from every box sold to pheasants forever.

[dvmweb]

Great post!!! I don't understand why people discredit a product before they use it. One other thing federal donates money from every box sold to pheasants forever.

I agree.

Bought some today. Going to North Dakota. I am going to try them out. I'll report back in a few days. I just shoot birds over my dogs. No deeeeeeep analysis. I am going to just try these things out..

[WI ditch chicken]

I just couldn't help myself this evening. I went to Fleet Farm and was looking at magazines on the rack. I had ended up by the Magazine rack via the fishing gear. On my way to the register I walked through the hunting stuff and right by the shotgun shells. I just had to stop and pick up a box just to look at it.:D I think I stood there and stared at them for a good 10 minutes thinking about this thread. I ended up getting that box. I'll try it out and use it on the top barrel for my second shot. Will report back.

I hope this crap works.
Scott

[wesslpointer]

I know there's no steel in that load but it still has the same shaped flite stopper shot. Lead or Steel. They won't fly straight and true. They can't..there not round.

Yes shot should be round, unround is cheeper to make so they bs you.

[dvmweb]

Our group tried #4 PS on trip to ND. Too much for close shots, but, good for distance. Tears the birds up if under 25 or 30 yards.

[kgpcr]

Gimmicks!!!! i will stay with my good old 13.00 a box ammo. I am not silly enough to pay 14.00 extra for a gimmick name

[pheasantaddict]

What about 13.25?

[birdshooter]

Here's a little synopsis on Prairie Storm: http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/federal-prairie-storm-ammunition/

According to the Federal, Prairie storm was developed with the notion that many Pheasants are taken at 15-30 yards. In theory, the odd shaped shot was designed to cause it to "fly out" (less aerodynamic) and fill in the outer portions of the pattern better than than a load of entirely standard plated lead pellets. This, all while retaining superior pattern density down range at longer distances. The reason why they are blowing birds up IMO is because the shape of the Flight stopper pellet creates a bigger wound channel much the same as the Steel counter part "Black Cloud".

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has some of this stuff to pattern some with open chokes at normal shooting ranges.

[elijah79]

The thing that bothers me about this new fancy ammo is that it's all over in the stores and it seems to disappear like a pizza at a Weight-Watchers convention but I can't use any of it. I hunt on Federal WPA's and I can't use it there. I don't know enough people who own places and property that I could hunt on where I could use the stuff at.
It's of no use to me if I don't have a place to use it.

[birdshooter]

The thing that bothers me about this new fancy ammo is that it's all over in the stores and it seems to disappear like a pizza at a Weight-Watchers convention but I can't use any of it. I hunt on Federal WPA's and I can't use it there. I don't know enough people who own places and property that I could hunt on where I could use the stuff at.
It's of no use to me if I don't have a place to use it.

What about your state run public lands, is that only non-tox as well?

I've never been to Montana, but am aware of the BLM lands, how is that mandated for legal shot?

[elijah79]

What about your state run public lands, is that only non-tox as well?

I've never been to Montana, but am aware of the BLM lands, how is that mandated for legal shot?

There is the BLM land but it's more abundant on the east side of the divide, but around here on the west side where I live it's not as common. Every once in a while you can find the block management but they're open more often for deer and the 4-legged prey rather than for birds. I live right in the mountains about 50-60 miles from the Canadian border. The upland bird hunting in my area is about petered out, I hate to say that!!

[kuk kuk]

Prairie Storm (aka Desert Storm shells) pattern just fine and is VERY lethal. I will not use anything else, especially late season.

[Nimrod]

It's safe to say that pretty much any reasonable load of #6s or larger w/ a muzzle velocity > 1,200 fps can kill a pheasant out to about 45 yds.

So I have to assume that this load is designed to kill cleanly at some distance beyond that. What range are we looking for?

How far away can you consistently hit a target?

[jeffstally]

The thing that bothers me about this new fancy ammo is that it's all over in the stores and it seems to disappear like a pizza at a Weight-Watchers convention but I can't use any of it. I hunt on Federal WPA's and I can't use it there. I don't know enough people who own places and property that I could hunt on where I could use the stuff at.
It's of no use to me if I don't have a place to use it.

In Minnesota we have a lot of Waterfowl Production Areas that are open to pheasant hunting but lead shot is not allowed. Black Cloud is the steel version of Prairie Storm. I use Black Cloud #2 or BB and it drops birds dead (when I hit them).

[elijah79]

I've been thinking of using the Black Cloud ammunition for Pheasants on the WPA's. I'd think the number 2 is a little big, isn't it?! I was figuring on about 4 or so... Not too sure though.

[kuk kuk]

Has anyone done any patterning with this new ammo? I just ordered a couple boxes of 20GA- #6 to check it out. I'll share what I learn.

Granted, all of our gun's pattern individually.

I do not wound hardly any birds since I started using Prairie Storm. I think the winged pellets are getting their just fine. When I clean the birds I have found them.

[jeffstally]

I've been thinking of using the Black Cloud ammunition for Pheasants on the WPA's. I'd think the number 2 is a little big, isn't it?! I was figuring on about 4 or so... Not too sure though.

Pheasants Forever magazine had an article a year or two ago and they claimed that #2 steel shot was the best size for steel.

Late season I use steel BB shot for those birds flushing wild.

[elijah79]

See, shows what I know!! I was told by one of the guys at the local gun store that if you use anything bigger than say about #4 then you're wasting meat. I guess I just payed attention to him a little too much!
I'm still new to the family here so please forgive my ignorance!!

[jeffstally]

See, shows what I know!! I was told by one of the guys at the local gun store that if you use anything bigger than say about #4 then you're wasting meat. I guess I just payed attention to him a little too much!
I'm still new to the family here so please forgive my ignorance!!

He may be right, I just want to make sure that a bird goes down when I hit it.

[kuk kuk]

I would really like to hear from SOMEONE who has used these shells. OK?

I just bought a case today. I hunt pheasants 40 days a year. I will not use anything else after the first 2-3 weeks of the season. No wounded birds, they are all dead. Been hunting pheasants since 1962. (Not a typo) Does that help? When I first started using them I was careful to observe if the winged pellets were in the bird. They were, but I could not tell you if they created more damage or penetrated deeper. All I know is that I like them and if its in my head, so what. Break down the cost of each bird and you will gladly pay top dollar for shells becuase it adds so very little to the overall cost.

[Zerocool33]

I have been using the PS counterpart BC since it was introduced and have had excellent luck with ducks. I was pretty disappointed when I found out Federal wasn't making PS in steel. I know for die hard uplanders lead is king still, but I hunt near a lot of potholes and such, and non-tox is a must. Too bad, probably works good.:mad:

[Rooster Roaster]

Sorry, can't speak to the Prairie Storm loads, but these have won me over after using them on here in WI, MN, and last week in SD. They are hardened nickel-plated shot delivered to your door for $12.00 per box. The 5's fold roosters near and (very) far. Nice loads!

http://bandpusa.com/hunting/mb-long-range.html

I'll add that B&P has free shipping and they come to your door promptly. I just ordered another cased based on what I experienced this past week in SD alone.

[Ptnglab]

It is all about the flight control wad. I use Black Cloud and Prairie Storm. You really should pattern your gun with both of these.

[pheasantaddict]

Zerocool33, just use the Blackcloud for pheasants and #3 shot size should work just fine.

[CRP]

Taking any advise from most store "clerks" is not wise, especially those in the Mart's. I have listened to some of the conversations between these so-called "experts" and customers and just shake my head in utter disbelief. Of course, they go from shoe expert to fly-fishing expert to reloading expert to clothing expert bi-weekly.

[wesslpointer]

Pheasants Forever magazine had an article a year or two ago and they claimed that #2 steel shot was the best size for steel.

Late season I use steel BB shot for those birds flushing wild.

For steel BB shot I've found 1.25 oz or larger is needed to get " enough pellets" in pattern , had bad luck with 1 and one eight oz

[wsumner]

Difference in 1 1/8 and 1 1/4----9 pellets, 81 vs 90. Better of dropping shot size if you have holes in your pattern.

[greatlawn]

Why are they moving to Steel shot?

[Mark Hinkle]

Went to SD last weekend. Prairie Storm proved to much for the old Rem 1100.

[Augusta]

Went to SD last weekend. Prairie Storm proved to much for the old Rem 1100.
Can you explain what you mean by "to much for the old Rem 1100"?

[Mark Hinkle]

This gun was built in the late sixties. Had a lot of rounds through it. The link snapped off. Got a new one coming. Should be good as new.

[uplandgameadventures]

Has anyone had any success with Prairie Storm shooting birds inside 20 yards? Probably pretty dumb to be taking shots this close - won't be anything left. Surprisingly, the birds were not jumpy this late in the year and dogs made some great points.

I used #5's this past weekend and missed just about everything inside that range. On the bright side, everything over...even out to about 60 yards on a straight away shot (Full Choke), I dropped one on a prayer shot.

I went to a #6 shot of Federal's Pheasants Forever (1330 fps) for the closer range - wish I had done it sooner. I used it as my first shot with a modified choke. Still had Prairie Storm as my 2nd shot.

Neil

[Nimrod]

Has anyone had any success with Prairie Storm shooting birds inside 20 yards? Probably pretty dumb to be taking shots this close - won't be anything left.

Why in the world would anybody shoot a pheasant at 20 yds? You do realize you can let them fly a little before taking the shot right?

Every year I see guys use a choke/load combo that's suitable for >50 yd shots (even though they can't hit birds that far away) & then try to kill the birds as soon as they clear the ground.

In the 1st place, if you shoot pheasants at less than 35 yds, it really doesn't matter what shell you're using. An oz/ of 7.5s will kill them just fine.

In the 2nd place, if you're shooting that quick because you've got to beat your buddy, you're hunting w/ the wrong kind of people. Find partners who shoot in their own zones & respect yours.

3rd, a pheasant is one of the easiest game birds to hit. It's not a grouse or quail that is going to be gone behind cover if you don't shoot it quick. Take your time & let the bird get out where your pattern can open up.

Finally, a wild animal deserves the respect of being eaten by the predator who kills it, not just being blown to bits for laughs.

[uplandgameadventures]

Anyone else have some NON-sarcastic advise?

In a perfect world, any of these points of Nimrod's would be true. In tall and thick cattails however, you don't always have the luxury to allow a bird to reach that distance...the birds stayed low and all we would see then is exploding cattail heads. Like I said, I switched loads after I seen how close the birds were. Usually late season birds are too wild by now and getting up 40+ yards away so I was prepared to make some of those long shots. Maybe just a dumb question to bring up in the first place.

As for killing a bird just for laughs...there's always gotta be someone on this forum to make bone-headed comments like that.

[Nimrod]

I need to apologize for my last post. It was condescending & inappropriate.

I don’t know you or your situation. I guess I was reflecting on a bad experience I had a few weeks ago when I agreed to run my dogs for a friend who put on a preserve hunt for some sports who shot the way I described & it left me very PO’d.

I do know that Federal implies the Black Cloud is suitable at both close & long range but a friend showed me the pattern he’d shot at 30 yds & their was a “fist” sized wad of pellets from his modified choke that would have destroyed the breast of a pheasant.

Again, sorry for the bad attitude.

[Dakotazeb]

I truly fail to see the need for shells like Prairie Storm. In my opinion, a majority of hunters use too restrictive of choke and way more shell than is needed. More pheasants would be harvested if they used a IC choke and a decent 1 1/4 oz. load of 5's or 6's. But that's only my opinion after hunting pheasants for 54 years.

What's the advantage with the Prairie Storm shells? Looks to me it's taking a IC choked gun and making it a full choke. I don't doubt when guys are saying the PS kills 'em dead. But you could get the same results in taking a less expensive shell and shooting it through a full choke tube. When you hit the bird it's probably going to be dead. And awfully shot up too. With that tight of pattern how many are completely missed?

Give me a 12 ga. with IC choke and a 1 1/4 oz. load of $10 a box shells and I'll take on anyone with the PS shells to see who shoots the most birds.

[birdshooter]

Just want to add some comments to Nimrod's quotes here.

Why in the world would anybody shoot a pheasant at 20 yds?
Believe it or not the majority of wild Pheasants are in fact shot inside 30 yards.

3rd, a pheasant is one of the easiest game birds to hit. It's not a grouse or quail that is going to be gone behind cover if you don't shoot it quick. It can also be one of the easiest birds to miss. Pheasants flushing on a windy day can change directions faster than you can blink an eye. The reason I say they can be one of the easiest to miss is because of the tail feathers. People have a tendency to look at the whole bird instead of the head when shooting and thus will shoot behind or catch a bunch of tail feathers. The overall length of the bird including tail feathers gives the impression that the body is much bigger than it really is. That and how many of us no matter how long we have been hunting Mr. Ringneck still have the proverbial "heart attack" at the onset of a loud cackling rooster getting up at our feet. That alone can make you do things you normally wouldn't otherwise. ;)

[Bird Buster]

Just got back from a trip shooting these loads exclusively. Way too tight for average shooting distances. Blew one bird into a cloud of feathers practically at around 25 yards with Improved cylinder choke. Also had 3 cripples that would have gotten away without dogs. My conclusion is won't be buying any more, too tight of pattern and you cannot predict it as a 2nd shell unless you normally always miss on your first.

[Gman214]

Ok, I think many are missing the boat here (not referring to any post in particular). When I found this thread, I was sure hoping more people would have done more "actual" field and pattern testing. Nevertheless, I heard many people say they are "too much" and kill too hard...I don't see the problem here. And obviously they are tight patterning...Federal is telling you that you get a 75% pattern density in a 30" circle at 40 yards!

Personally, I have fired just under one box of these on late season, ultra-wild Chukar...and I love them. But I have yet to pattern test them myself so I won't go too far with any "best ever" claims or anything like that. Nevertheless, if what Federal and others are saying is true (they pattern tigher with less choke, and they obviously are going to hit very hard with that kind of payload),...then these are clearly long range shells. For me, they have done VERY nicely for my 3rd shot in my autoloader. In the past, I almost always use an IC choke with standar lead pheasant loads followed with a 3rd shot of my hand-loaded Hevi-Shot that gives me 60+ yards of lethality...so it seems to me that these fit this bill perfectly. So, for those shooting autoloader's that seek the O/U benefit of being able to "choke-up" for follow-up shots, these should effectively allow one to go from an choke for the first shot or two, followed by a tight choke for the 3rd (or 2nd and 3rd) shots. But yea...I folded some 40 yard Chukar with this load and an IC choke, so I'm sure at 20 yards they would either destroy the bird (or cause you to miss) due to their tight patterning nature.

[Bird Buster]

This site is primarily a pheasant hunters forum and rarely do people bring up chukar hunting ever on here and 60 yard shooting and then start comparing it to pheasant hunting. I have patterned P.S. and at 30 yards it gives you probably 90% in a 30 inch circle with Improved cylinder. Most pheasant shooting is probably done up to about 30 yards typically with a few exceptions. This load also sheds tons of lead fragments from the entry spot into the meat like I have never seen before which has to be attributed to the flite stopper lead system in my opinion. If you can predict you need a "Long range" 3rd shell on pheasants as this one as a 3rd shot you must be a really poor shooter in my opinion. Time would be better spent at a gun range improving your shooting to begin with truthfully.

[Gman214]

This site is primarily a pheasant hunters forum and rarely do people bring up chukar hunting ever on here and 60 yard shooting and then start comparing it to pheasant hunting. I have patterned P.S. and at 30 yards it gives you probably 90% in a 30 inch circle with Improved cylinder. Most pheasant shooting is probably done up to about 30 yards typically with a few exceptions. This load also sheds tons of lead fragments from the entry spot into the meat like I have never seen before which has to be attributed to the flite stopper lead system in my opinion. If you can predict you need a "Long range" 3rd shell on pheasants as this one as a 3rd shot you must be a really poor shooter in my opinion. Time would be better spent at a gun range improving your shooting to begin with truthfully.

I will try not to be offended by your comments, as I know it's easy for you to hide behind your text (and maybe you just like to antagonize people)...I'd give just about anything to shoot clays or pigeons against you, but that won't happen, so I'll leave it alone. And I shoot more pheasants than chukar (didn't realize I needed to mention that before posting)...and maybe you shoot a lot of planted birds or where they hold tight for a pointer, which is fine, but for most pheasant hunters, when flushing groups of birds (especially in wind and especially when flushed by other/adjecent hunters), 2nd and 3rd follow-up shots (for most hunters) are frequently over 40 yards.

[jsdriggs]

Wow, I can't believe this thread is still breathing! LOL! I bought two boxes of the 20GA # 6' Prairie Storm. I have 49 shells left. I killed one bird last day of the year with it. Only because I was out of the Fiocchi GF's in 1 oz 6 shot.
The only thing I'll say is I'm getting a case of the Fiocchi for next season. In my 20, they were absolutely lethal all season.
The Prairie Storm is going to join the other dozen boxes of 20GA in my shop that I don't feel the need to use because I have other "light" loads that do the trick.

[Dakotazeb]

Wow, I can't believe this thread is still breathing! LOL! I bought two boxes of the 20GA # 6' Prairie Storm. I have 49 shells left. I killed one bird last day of the year with it. Only because I was out of the Fiocchi GF's in 1 oz 6 shot.
The only thing I'll say is I'm getting a case of the Fiocchi for next season. In my 20, they were absolutely lethal all season.
The Prairie Storm is going to join the other dozen boxes of 20GA in my shop that I don't feel the need to use because I have other "light" loads that do the trick.

jsdriggs, I'm in full agreement with what you've said. I think most guys are way over gunned when hunting pheasants. I know there are those that feel they have to have a 12 ga. with 3" mags for pheasants. In the past I've been a strong supporter of the Federal Premium PF 2 3/4" loads at 1,500 fps. But during the past 2 seasons I have been using my 16 ga. O/U or SxS over 90% of the time and I'm killing just as many birds. My loads are Federal standard (in the blue box) loads with 1 1/8 oz. of #6 at 1.295 fps. And I shoot IC/Mod chokes. And next year I plan to try some 1 oz loads at 1,200 fps in 16 ga. This got me to thinking, "why to I need the 12 ga. PF loads?" In fact, the few times I did use my 12 ga. this year I shot the Upland 34's from Runnings that are made by Fiocchi. 1 1/5 oz. of #5 That did everything the Federal PF's did and they were only $8.49 per box. On sale now for $7.91.

That's why I personally see absolutely no need for shells like the Prairie Storm. But again, it's whatever works for you and what you feel comfortable with. But, IMHO a lot of pheasant hunters use too much gun, choked too tight and loaded with too much shell.

[onpoint]

jsdriggs, I'm in full agreement with what you've said. I think most guys are way over gunned when hunting pheasants. I know there are those that feel they have to have a 12 ga. with 3" mags for pheasants. In the past I've been a strong supporter of the Federal Premium PF 2 3/4" loads at 1,500 fps. But during the past 2 seasons I have been using my 16 ga. O/U or SxS over 90% of the time and I'm killing just as many birds. My loads are Federal standard (in the blue box) loads with 1 1/8 oz. of #6 at 1.295 fps. And I shoot IC/Mod chokes. And next year I plan to try some 1 oz loads at 1,200 fps in 16 ga. This got me to thinking, "why to I need the 12 ga. PF loads?" In fact, the few times I did use my 12 ga. this year I shot the Upland 34's from Runnings that are made by Fiocchi. 1 1/5 oz. of #5 That did everything the Federal PF's did and they were only $8.49 per box. On sale now for $7.91.

That's why I personally see absolutely no need for shells like the Prairie Storm. But again, it's whatever works for you and what you feel comfortable with. But, IMHO a lot of pheasant hunters use too much gun, choked too tight and loaded with too much shell.

I agree 100%. I shot a similar load from Runnings and was very happy with them. They were also in the $8.00 per box range. I plan on buying a couple of cases of these and be done with it for a long time.

[jsdriggs]

jsdriggs, I'm in full agreement with what you've said. I think most guys are way over gunned when hunting pheasants. I know there are those that feel they have to have a 12 ga. with 3" mags for pheasants. In the past I've been a strong supporter of the Federal Premium PF 2 3/4" loads at 1,500 fps. But during the past 2 seasons I have been using my 16 ga. O/U or SxS over 90% of the time and I'm killing just as many birds. My loads are Federal standard (in the blue box) loads with 1 1/8 oz. of #6 at 1.295 fps. And I shoot IC/Mod chokes. And next year I plan to try some 1 oz loads at 1,200 fps in 16 ga. This got me to thinking, "why to I need the 12 ga. PF loads?" In fact, the few times I did use my 12 ga. this year I shot the Upland 34's from Runnings that are made by Fiocchi. 1 1/5 oz. of #5 That did everything the Federal PF's did and they were only $8.49 per box. On sale now for $7.91.

That's why I personally see absolutely no need for shells like the Prairie Storm. But again, it's whatever works for you and what you feel comfortable with. But, IMHO a lot of pheasant hunters use too much gun, choked too tight and loaded with too much shell.
Yeah Zeb, I only shoot a 20 anymore. I have a nice 12, but I catch a bunch of doo doo from my best hunting buds every time I talk about it. LOL! Bunch of small bore snobs! But, really, both those guys are soooo lethal with a scattergun. Poor birds!

Related to lethality- I want to shave a 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch off the top of my stock and refinish it this offseason. I get a little bit of a bite on my cheekbone occasionally. Ouch!

[Bird Buster]

I will try not to be offended by your comments, as I know it's easy for you to hide behind your text (and maybe you just like to antagonize people)...I'd give just about anything to shoot clays or pigeons against you, but that won't happen, so I'll leave it alone. And I shoot more pheasants than chukar (didn't realize I needed to mention that before posting)...and maybe you shoot a lot of planted birds or where they hold tight for a pointer, which is fine, but for most pheasant hunters, when flushing groups of birds (especially in wind and especially when flushed by other/adjecent hunters), 2nd and 3rd follow-up shots (for most hunters) are frequently over 40 yards.

Your original first post to get started on here was off the wall to me to jump in and think you are an expert and your second post seems to confirm that. I hunt wild birds 100% with flushing dogs in multiple states. I don't think a lot of people on this site share your view with a lot of shooting over 40 yards on pheasants, sorry. To each his own though.

[519vx]

After crippling two more birds this morning with Prairie Storm ammo (#5 in 12 gauge) I am DONE with it. I committed to using it this year and have since the season started. I've "exploded" two birds that I did let get out a ways, and have had count 'em FOUR cripples this year. Fortunately the dog ran down 3 of them but one got away today. I'm done with the stuff. :(

[Big T]

I tried the PC this year, and it sure does kick. It also is a very dirty shell IMO. I use 3.5 in Black Cloud #2's all year for geese and love them. I like PC, but will use it late season. The box I shot was highly effective, and I have no complaints, but will use it again later. Out of 25 shots, 23 dead, no cripples. Pretty lethal IMO

[Spence]

you guys can have that crap... Estate 5's kill em just fine for me. Just another gimmic to get people to spend more money on.

[carptom1]

I'm with you spence. I have killed birds for years with whatever was on sale at walmart. I did change to fiocchi a couple years ago. Makes me feel a little more upscale using the fancy shells. Hey Spence, get those aspirin yet?

[Shadow]

like how you say that Spence- Estate Heavy Field 7.5's for me-
skeet tubes- drops wild roosters cold- I have a few boxes- doubt a rooster over my Britt's is going to care if I shoot the Estates- or my handload of 7's

designer loads with fancy names- good for folks to pay premium-

[siouxcitysmitty]

In response to the original question about patterning, I alternated between patterning some 12ga, 5 shot prairie storm at 30 yards versus some 5 shot Fiocchi GPX? (the stuff that's 1485 fps). Both were with improved cylinder.

Generally, about 95% of the pellet holes from the PS were contained within about an 18-20 inch circle. The Fiocchi was more like a 30 inch circle.

So, a significant difference, and, given that I like Prairie Storm, I've opened up to a skeet choke, and that's what I use (although I ran out of paper an didn't actually pattern with the skeet).

Seems to me that I get fewer cripples with the PS.

[onpoint]

In response to the original question about patterning, I alternated between patterning some 12ga, 5 shot prairie storm at 30 yards versus some 5 shot Fiocchi GPX? (the stuff that's 1485 fps). Both were with improved cylinder.

Generally, about 95% of the pellet holes from the PS were contained within about an 18-20 inch circle. The Fiocchi was more like a 30 inch circle.

So, a significant difference, and, given that I like Prairie Storm, I've opened up to a skeet choke, and that's what I use (although I ran out of paper an didn't actually pattern with the skeet).

Seems to me that I get fewer cripples with the PS.

With the Flight Control wad, I'm not sure how much the choke really effects the pattern.

[birdshooter]

I've "exploded" two birds that I did let get out a ways, and have had count 'em FOUR cripples this year. (

Just a thought, but it may be worth it on your part to pattern that load with the same choke at the approx. distance you were having an issue with. There is no absolute science when it comes to what a given load will pattern as every gun, load and choke combination will and does give different results.

Just because they advertise it as being a long distance load doesn't necessarily mean so. Unfortunately the marketing departments of these ammo manufacturer's want you to believe all this.

I seem to remember reading some documented information about Prairie Storm ammo not patterning very good with extended ported choke tubes.

[Spence]

Carptom I also bought the Fiocchi's a couple years ago, but the past couple years Rogers has had Estate Cases on sale for about $8 a box, so that was hard to say no to! and I've actually been stocking up on the Aspirin! :thumbsup:

I'm pretty sure that if Estate had some crazy commercial and a fancy box about how great these shells were half of you Prairie Storm guys would run out and get some! Or if I switched out your Prarie storm with the estates I bet you wouldn't notice a difference and swear they were the greatest shells ever.

:rolleyes:

[JFan02]

I haven't used the Prairie Storm ammo at all. I do have a friend who loves the 20 gauge loads though.

I did use Winchester Blind Side this fall in ND while duck hunting and I was very impressed. It knocked down everything. I had 3" #2's and it took down everything I hit right away. It could be a good option for WPA's or other non-tox areas for pheasants.

[onpoint]

Just got a coupon in the mail from Gander Mountain for $7.00 a box off with a 5 box limit.

[Dakotazeb]

Just got a coupon in the mail from Gander Mountain for $7.00 a box off with a 5 box limit.

Knowing Gander Mountain their price is probably $7 a box higher than everyone else! :)

[Bird Buster]

Truthfully I think they may be having problems selling it, overpriced and doesn't perform usefully well IMO.

[519vx]

About a month ago I made a post about my experience with Prairie Storm and crippled birds. I went back to Federal Hi-Brass lead and I am glad I went back. Every bird I've shot with the lead went down hard and hit the ground dead with the exception of one that ran about 40 feet and was dead when Kaytee (my golden retriever) got to him. Maybe it's psychological. Maybe its dumb luck...but I had crippled four birds using PS and went to ZERO cripples running the Federals. I kept the same choke tubes in as well.

Something to keep in mind you're experiencing problems with cripples.

[Augusta]

What kind of high brass federals are you using if I may ask?

[519vx]

I think they are "heavy game" or something like that. They were around $10 a box. Red shell casing and although late in the season, I'm still using #6 mostly because I'm hunting heavy cover (brushy/berry plant areas with blow downs etc).

[SDJIM]

Maybe your gun/choke just shoots one load better than the other---go shoot both at paper and find out.:D:D

[519vx]

I plan to do just that but the results already speak for themselves. For what its' worth, my go to is a Ruger Red Label O/U with improved cylinder and modified tubes.

[duppy]

I have noticed an increase in booth misses and cripples since I started using PS ammunition. My hunting partner has noticed simmilar problems. We are both very good at wing shooting. :mad:

[birdshooter]

Haven't you guys heard? These are the newest loads designed by Federal guaranteed to miss Pheasants in the name of conservation. A portion of the proceeds from each box goes toward Pheasants Forever and Pheasant conservation. So keep shooting the stuff and there will be Pheasants Forever. :D:eek:

[dead pheasants forever]

I bought a few boxes of this stuff to try out for my 20 and my 12. I shot one on Saturday with the 20 gauge #5 shot out of a modified choke that patterns more like an improved. Distance was about 25 yds. Surprisingly, the bird had legs and my dog chased it for a good 40-50 yds before recovering the rooster. But when I cleaned the bird, it had exit wounds all over the breast (going away shot). The moral of the story is that a wounded bird doesn't necessarily tell you much because not all birds react the same to getting hammered.

It does make sense that higher velocity is more effective on birds going straight away where you don't have a shot at the head/neck and the shot has to travel all the way through the body to reach the vitals. It probably doesn't matter as much at other angles. I would also bet that those who say shells don't matter have dogs that are good retrievers. Somehow you don't notice the cripples as much when you've got a good dog!

[519vx]

birdshooter...that's funny stuff, and I think quite true! :cheers:

I'm sure some folks will swear by the stuff, but I'll continue to swear at it. Use whatever loads work for you, but if you're experiencing cripple issues, it's something to think about. Lead worked fine for me in the past, I should have never tried to fix what already worked.

dead pheasants forever...for a fisherman, it doesn't matter how good your net man is if the hooks you are using aren't sharp. My dogs are just fine....but why gamble on cripples? I made an ammo change this year to PS and suddenly started experiencing cripple issues that I never had before. I switched back to hi brass lead and my cripple problems go away. That has nothing to do with my dogs. Rather, it is about being an ethical and responsible sportsman and making the adjustment to ensure quick and clean kills.

[Gman214]

Yes, exactly. They are what they are. it patterns tighter than other loads/wads with a given choke. So if you have a single barrel and like "Over/Under" advantage of tigher follow-up shots, then these fit the bill. I now have 2 years of experience with these shells, and for me they are a great 3rd follow-up shots with my I/C choke, behind B&Ps. They kill well, and far! Though I do not see the benefit of using these shells with a tight choke...if everything is getting up wild, I'll simply choke up and use standard Kent's or B&Ps.

My only complaint is that I wish they came in a more reasonable velocity, as they are "heavy".


In response to the original question about patterning, I alternated between patterning some 12ga, 5 shot prairie storm at 30 yards versus some 5 shot Fiocchi GPX? (the stuff that's 1485 fps). Both were with improved cylinder.

Generally, about 95% of the pellet holes from the PS were contained within about an 18-20 inch circle. The Fiocchi was more like a 30 inch circle.

So, a significant difference, and, given that I like Prairie Storm, I've opened up to a skeet choke, and that's what I use (although I ran out of paper an didn't actually pattern with the skeet).

Seems to me that I get fewer cripples with the PS.

[Bryan Casto]

I shot a pheasant with last weekend with praire storm out of his berretta and a 35 yards or so it absolutely demoilished that bird. I had to check and make sure it was a mod choke. I dont like them it wasted that bird. For pheasant i just like a typical high brass 6 shot. And even though low brass work perfectly fine.

[Gman214]

Bryan,

Exactly again! With a modified choke, that load likely patterns like a full or x-full out of your gun, so I'm not surprised it hammered it. And I'm sure a standard 1 1/4 load would have worked perfectly...in fact, I'm sure a 1oz load would have worked just fine at 35 yards. I would not use these shells with a tight/modified choke personally. If I didn't like have long-range, tight-patterning back-up/3rd shots, I wouldn't use them either...cheaper to simply use a tighter choke.

[IDPheasantKiller]

I have been shooting Fiocci nickel plated #4's and it really breaks them down.

[Upland_Canuck]

I despise Prairie Storm. Couldn't get it to pattern though my gun, regardless of the choke... I know a guy that was using PS in his 20ga, and took the wing from a Chukar at 45yards with a skeet choke... what ammo does that?!

[oldandnew]

Prairie Storm, aka, another shiney gadget designed to catch novice shooters. I'm going to market a new load with chopped glass and gravel, talk about "Just cut 'em", and it's non-toxic, biodegradable!!!